Member motivation in "Leader gets all" LS

[Demosthenes11]

Hey brah, get off my dick.

you said it, i didnt

[Bukadan]

Oh by that i meant that he had the linkshell go to fafnir for the collective improvement of the linkshell rather than just himself, as he wasnt lotting anything from fafnir/nid anyways. im just trying to clear whats being said about dioma and perse up. as far as /t'ing you with attacks saying your ignorant and shit, people are free to state their opinions and ask questions such as the one you asked, (what motivates members in said linkshells,and in linkshells like said linkshells?) and i have no problem with that, I just like when people accept others' opinions and facts to help further alter their own opinion whether strengthening their current opinion or even slightly altering it. I suppose i was out of line by hard-defending dio/perse, and didnt answer the question the post (nynja) asked. My answers are respect, faith, trust, and loyalty of a leader and its members. without those aspects, a linkshell will die off.

[Tagus]

Isn't reverse psychology rule #1, when somebody says right off the bat that they're "not trying to do xxx or say xxx, BUT"... that this exactly what they're trying to do?

[Iremire]

Pretty sure everyone one of those linkshell leaders you posted have members that are completely decked out, and like many people have stated being in the shell probably comes with a fat pay check every 2 weeks / month.

[Narse]

For what it's worth:

First off, concerning Papy, he's technically a sack, but he doesn't do sack duties. It's more of a designation for JP members/players to contact him concerning matters cause he speaks excellent English. Papy has self funded every relic he has obtained, though he has at times used points to cash out for gil to partially fund some of them. He has never been nominated for a linkshell relic.

You think Papy abuses his LS to get items, but the fact is that Papy busts his ass in his free time to make gil by farming NMs and crafting. When he was doing Excalibur he was constantly at Big Bomb, AH history was loaded with sales from him on Fire Bomblet.

As a leader, Sinus was incredibly fair and not selfish. When we got our first Defending Ring, the LS rules at the time stated we would nominate a member to lot it for a set number of points. Sinus won this nomination, and then told another member to lot it along with him. Fortunately, after Sinus lost that D. Ring, we got lucky with another D. Ring 3 weeks later on a late night KB.

From our 2nd AV (first one that had drops) we got Minerva's Ring, Aureole, and Mars's Ring. People assume Sinus took the ring for himself, but anyone that had the points for the item was allowed to lot it. At the time was 3 members, including myself, he just happened to random the highest.

Everything in our LS is done with a points system that we strive to make as fair as possible.

At the moment, I am the leader, I try to be fair and not selfish. I have 2 relics currently, and am working on a 3rd. I have not had LS assistance to this point. I was nominated for a linkshell relic and turned it down, because I had two relics already and the ability to make gil. Other members have no chance outside of LS nomination, and I wanted some longer term members to have a chance at it. When we did our last LS nominated relic (within the last month) I had 63 M. Silvers towards my Amano. I sold them to the LS bank at the bottom end of market value so that we could get it done for our member, foregoing my own relic, and unfortunately having to pay more than I sold them for to get them again.

I guess my point is that, when viewed from an outsider's perspective, it's hard to see what really goes on in a lot of big linkshells. People assume the leaders take advantage of the LS to get big items, but the fact is that it's just often times the leaders work harder than most regular members, and therefore earn more. The biggest and best LSes are probably run by people that are viewed as selfish from outsiders, but the people who know them know how selfless they generally are, and that is why their LSes succeed.

[Wrish]

Member motivation in Leader-gets-all LS? None. If members look really motivated then they do not believe that the leader gets all. There are fly-by-night shells riding on disbelief but you don't seem to be talking about them.

The corporate analogy works so well I should bring it up again. Managers/executives get paid a lot without doing the work that brings in the revenue. Yet the grunts still get paid competitively because the corporation is efficient. It's very efficient in FFXI to team up, so long as you don't wipe or use poor job combos/excessive people. Leaders/sacs get paid well for applying their experience to boost efficiency beyond that which most people can get solo or teamed up with a mismanaged shell.

If your shell is not quite that efficient or does bring excessive people, then the leadership doesn't get paid much more than a grunt... that's all. Members still have to be compensated or they'll jump ship.

[bechyni]

Oh Nynja if you mean the "fail" /tell that I sent you on Hyorinmaru, I'm not in Pers anymore just thought I'd let you know how much of an idiot your making yourself look by trying to make another Dioma bash thread which this obviously tried to be. If you wanted to know why people stay in Pers ask them maybe instead of "not starting shit" on here? But I'm pretty sure people stay in Pers for the 200+~ mil a month gil split that goes out to it's members.

[Ratatapa]

I have to agree with buka and Bechy, dioma is one of the best leader for a HNMLS they can be, like any leader he had his moment when he wanted his stuff, which is normal, but he was always on to help other people camp stuff, as he knows how much i bitched him off because i liked to annoy him. And yet he was still fair with me like any other people, he was not taking points off me, i still had my share part and all.

Not alot of leaders can do that (big HNMLS leader)

[Duber]

I guess my point is that, when viewed from an outsider's perspective, it's hard to see what really goes on in a lot of big linkshells. People assume the leaders take advantage of the LS to get big items, but the fact is that it's just often times the leaders work harder than most regular members, and therefore earn more. The biggest and best LSes are probably run by people that are viewed as selfish from outsiders, but the people who know them know how selfless they generally are, and that is why their LSes succeed.

This is totally true. However, I believe the oposite happens as well (leaders who take great advantage of their position for their very own profit) and probably more often.

Excuse me what the fuck just happened here?

It doesn't look as I expected... just wanted to reflect the leetness/importance of those items from the view of that people.

[NynJa]

Nynja tu est sur gilgamesh?

oui, lol.

[D44kpunk]

You do know I have 5 100 crafts and first non-JP on Pande to cloth 100 right back in the days right? Not to mention one of the leaders of BLM merc LS years before WopaCo. existed + read my blog at how lucky I am at HQ's and drops from ENM/BC/NM's etc...
Remember the thread that brought shitstorm here on BG with Ringthree regarding my Abj sale? When I think of schemes to make money, I'm lightyears ahead of you, Nynja.
At one point my LS had almost as many relics as Ex.

wopa was also known to engage in a lot of RMT activies, i'm not sure how many pairs of gaiters he sold on EGS but it was a significant number. dunno if he bought gil or not but i know he sold gaiters

[Narse]

This is totally true. However, I believe the oposite happens as well (leaders who take great advantage of their position for their very own profit) and probably more often.

I'm sure it does, but those LSes are not the 'great' LSes. They are not the ones known cross server for their accomplishments.

[Duber]

I'm sure it does, but those LSes are not the 'great' LSes. They are not the ones known cross server for their accomplishments.

Yep probably, we don't really have any cross-server popular LS in ragnarok I think...

Anyway I was just talking about common shells around, not really talking about any specifically as maybe OP did.

[Byrthnoth]

As a player, if you have good gear, are skilled, and play the game for fun, then the most fun thing you can do is play with other skilled and well-geared people regardless of what you get out of it.

I got a lot of stuff in SapereAude and sure I was excited to be getting drops, but going to events was generally pretty fun. I mean, shit, I went to Einherjar twice a week for almost a year and got banned with >80k ampoules. I did get an E.body from Odin in the end, but I really wasn't expecting it at all. As a BLM, I died in there a lot to woken mobs, but it was fun and challenging enough and we were good enough that I never did the calculation of whether or not I could just fake afk and skip the event to spare my buffer. I was factoring in literally no reward other than doing the event and it was still coming out as worth doing for me.

There were a few things queued homework time (Ouryu v2 and Dynamis - Qufim about half the time), but the vast majority of events were great and I enjoyed doing them both for the challenge. I didn't need some relic or a d.ring waiting for me at the end of the rainbow. I was making plenty of money through the LS without a payout system (we did lots of your-pop-your-drop stuff). It was enough that there were events 7 days a week and at least an alliance of equally skilled and motivated people to do them with.

[Shamaya]

This reminds me of the inverse case, when I made this thread a couple of months ago. And I was beating my head over how to keep LS leaders/admins motivated enough. Some LS's with management that doesn't try to milk its own system have problems with longevity >,<

[richardd]

idk, i was the same as byrth lol. when you're not a loot whore and play for fun, i could care less what the LS leaders are getting and lotting. i guess its just lazy on my part, but you form a bond with your friends in any LS when you spend enough time with them and work together to achieve anything. Even if it was byrth's ebody that dropped off Odin, i felt like it was mine too and i was happy for the both of us. Ironically, in my experience, the people who didnt bother the sacks about shit, or constantly reminded people of the stuff they wanted usually ended up getting the majority of what they earned, lol.

but i can see the other side of it too. Especially if the LS is unsuccessful for the most part. I can spot shadiness like that a mile away, but i just keep to myself and observe and watch their patterns/actions of their leadership. luckily, i didnt really have to deal with much shit like that. My last LS leader was like one of my good in game friends. Him and i still talk and chill, and same with Stan. I knew him when he was immature little kid. Now he's an adult making some $ because he knows how to get what he needs and is good at taking the initiative.

[FailureMidgard]

This reminds me of the inverse case, when I made this thread a couple of months ago. And I was beating my head over how to keep LS leaders/admins motivated enough. Some LS's with management that doesn't try to milk its own system have problems with longevity >,<

Could always try, as a member, to start a poll to give a good leader a small kick-back for the effort they put in. It is possible for a leader to get more without it being sketchy, though I doubt many of said leaders would start it themselves.

[tsaroth816]

This reminds me of the inverse case, when I made this thread a couple of months ago. And I was beating my head over how to keep LS leaders/admins motivated enough. Some LS's with management that doesn't try to milk its own system have problems with longevity >,<

Yes that was a good thread. So good I still can't decide which side I'm on (for/against organizer/bookkeeper payouts).

For this thread to be more successful, shouldn't have named specific people/LS. Saying you don't want Drama, but you know it will, look at all the posts defending. Could still promote an interesting discussion, because I see so many LS that are a joke, I wonder how/why members are in it. Do they know the whole server laughs at them while their leader(s) have been proven to bank steal, gil buy, wipe to Despot, etc.

[NynJa]

if I hadnt named anything, people would have assumed I was ragging on someone, and instead of 1 LS hating on me, it would have been all of em.

[Kaces]

A smart leader will figure out a way to get it all. A brilliant leader will get it all, and everyone will like it.

i know you don't like me, but i like you alot right now kekekekeke