Member motivation in "Leader gets all" LS

[Titanss]

I always thought any ls banks that weren't public always skimmed something. Never seen it otherwise.

[Yabby]

I always thought any ls banks that weren't public always skimmed something. Never seen it otherwise.

You say that like it wouldn't be easy to skim while posting it as "Public". Sell some shit in rolanberry for 2.7, but in the bank's "Public" tracker say you sold it for 2.5 just to get it sold. Just saying it wouldn't matter ether way, if a person was going to skim it will happen even if the bank is public.

[Titanss]

ment more along the lines of big bulks of gil. I mean maybe they do that, but if one ls member checks that mule and sees it is bullshit that would be over

[Callisto]

I always thought any ls banks that weren't public always skimmed something. Never seen it otherwise.

I'm just fully public about what I skim, lol. Bank buys my RR and pays for my carbonara/sushi when I tank LS events

[Mojo]

That's how the game works, do you play ? What is not possible for you if you got one LS for every event ? relics ? The easiest way for a relic is to recruit noobs and do your own dynamis LS.

Nice try with the machismo bullshit. As others have said, the odds of finding a competent group for every activity in the game are incredibly low. That's not to say that some activities shouldn't be segmented into their own divisions (i.e. Salvage,) it's not not feasible for everything. 99% of the linkshells that do HNM, for instance, do some other activities as well. Unless you plan on making a linkshell for every one of these activities yourself (good luck with that!), you're joining someone else's group or making a linkshell that does more than just one event.

Set minimum bids for items. Depending on how many points your LS awards for events you could for example say... E.Body is minimum 50 points. Using this idea means each big ticket item would need to have a different value calculated. Bit of a pain to set up and there would bound to be discussions about "how come X item is minimum this and Y item is only that?". But no player would get cheap items for just 1 point simply because nobody wanted/dared to bid against them.

I had this for a while, but other problems like trashing not as good items because everyone is saving their points to bid on the big ticket items first. If your linkshell ever trashes an item due to people not wanting to spend points (which is different than not wanting the item) then it's failed. You could set the minimums to 1 for those, but I think that there could be better ways to correct this.

[Byrthnoth]

ment more along the lines of big bulks of gil. I mean maybe they do that, but if one ls member checks that mule and sees it is bullshit that would be over

There would be no reason to get caught, and you'd be shocked what a large amount of gil you can make selling stuff for 10% profit, especially if you process the gil for the whole LS.

For instance, two accounts. One is you, the second is your PL. Your second account has a level 1 Jeuno mule. You tell your Dynamis group you're bazaaring Bynes at 7k each to get them sold, and deliver regular payouts as if they have (of your own money). In fact, however, you transfer the currency to your level 1 Bazaar mule and bazaar them for 7.5k each, which takes a little longer but you can still clear currency once a week. Easy to do and very hard to detect as long as you never friend anyone with your PL account or talk to anyone from your level 1 jeuno mule. If you pull in 400 Byne Bills, you personally make 200k extra that run.
The larger % profit you can boost it up to the more gil you can make this way. Bynes and Alexandrite are excellent for this as you keep your investment low and your % return high. Personally, I haven't done anything like this in an official capacity as an LS leader. I do regularly do this to strangers (read: often JPs) who undervalue their currency though (because they have a social stigma against checking each other), and it has funded my return to the game three times now.

[Wrish]

There would be no reason to get caught, and you'd be shocked what a large amount of gil you can make selling stuff for 10% profit, especially if you process the gil for the whole LS.

Performance on the sale impacts the reputation of the seller. Sometimes I catch LS banks undercutting for a quick sale and make money on the resale (as a complete outsider). If you're always undercutting, then you'd better be timely with payouts, and if you borrow from your personal bank, I see nothing wrong. That's the price people pay for liquidity of assets. Of course, you should take LS feedback on whether the sales are too quick and inefficient.

When I converted my LS over to bidding, I encouraged everybody to be as cutthroat about it as they could.

I, too, favor open-market bidding with no artificial low/high point caps, but the biggest enemy in that case is collusion. If a small group of players want a rare and difficult item and decide all to underbid, what should a leader do? Perhaps pre-record maximum bids and open bids to outsiders based on a gil/points exchange?

[Shinsei]

I see a large emphasis on bazaar mules. If people wanted to skim, it could very well be done easier through trades in my opinion.

[Sirlancelot]

I'll speak from the Gilgamesh perspective, I don't know/care about the other leaders mentioned in the OP. I'm sure they did shady shit as well.

The only motivation for people staying in Dioma's LS is the paycheck they receive on a monthly basis. Think of the analogy, you work for a big company where your boss is a major dick, is condescending to you, calls you a shitty worker, takes pride in knowing that HE alone is making you a better worker because of his "incredible leadership and skills". You know he fucks you over but you don't do anything about it because you get enough money to still make you happy enough.

I know from firsthand experience, I got dragged into his LS for a short amount of time. I was in the LS for like a month and made nearly 500 points myself and I have a shitty playtime.
I'm an old player, led a real HNMLS for 6 years, I didn't have 3 mobs to farm to keep all my cronies happy in their servitude. Sandworm, Ixion, and in Dioma's case, KV where they sell Ace's Helm for 5M when people in the LS actually want Ace's Helm.

Basic Pers system goes like this: (gil earned for month / total points earned in a month by all members = gil/point), join LS, can't lot for 1 month, don't receive gilsplit for 1 month, for every item you lot, you lose 25% of your gilsplit for the month (lot 4 items = no split), the money "lost" by people lotting items is NOT accounted for since the bank only splits approx. "half" of gil obtained that month (so they can give out LOANS!). I don't know if they count the points earned by "new" members that can't receive their split. Where does this "lost" money go, you know where it goes, his pocket.
(Confirmed)
At the moment Dioma is 40 (or 60M i forgot) in debt for his Excalibur, but is currently buying currency for Yoichi relic bow (think he's about to hit stage 4), which will turn into another "loan" because he wants to "level into a relic." Going to be a sad day in the summer when he quits for school, 300M in "debt." I got screens somewhere to confirm this but I won't bother.

P.S. I like Nitecon too, he's awesome.

[Weeks]

Also, you might find it interesting that I'm still 1500 points above the next closest person and there's only 12 people above 1000 points while I sit over 7000 after lotting all those drops.

Honestly, what I infer from this is that point inflation is a huge problem with your point system. LSes that give out more points than they take back have a huge problem with point totals representing nothing more than seniority. It's not a problem anyone wants to do anything about, because the average recruit can't figure out they're being victimized and the average longtime member sees the amount of work the point leaders put into the shell but never does the math to figure out whether they're being compensated fairly.

The #1 lesson I learned from sticking with an endgame shell for 4 years is that you should make sure from day one that the point system is objectively fair, and not rely on leaders to enforce fairness. Powerhouse linkshells never operate fairly, but I'd prefer not to spend a few hours a day with people too stupid to figure out when they're being bent over.

[Viq]

Nice try with the machismo bullshit. As others have said, the odds of finding a competent group for every activity in the game are incredibly low. That's not to say that some activities shouldn't be segmented into their own divisions (i.e. Salvage,) it's not not feasible for everything. 99% of the linkshells that do HNM, for instance, do some other activities as well. Unless you plan on making a linkshell for every one of these activities yourself (good luck with that!), you're joining someone else's group or making a linkshell that does more than just one event.

I hate to side with Pchan, but the odds are better than you think. Personally, I hang out in a 5-man casual LS that handles sky, sea, ZNM, etc. on our own as we need items from them. I have a seperate LS for Einherjar, and another group that's small enough for Limbus to not even require an actual LS. I've long since lost interest in Dynamis, but some of the people in my "main" LS are in a Dynamis shell. None of these have scheduling conflicts. If I need anything from HNM that I don't already have, or can't get from Einherjar then I simply buy it.

[Tagus]

I hate to side with Pchan, but the odds are better than you think. Personally, I hang out in a 5-man casual LS that handles sky, sea, ZNM, etc. on our own as we need items from them. I have a seperate LS for Einherjar, and another group that's small enough for Limbus to not even require an actual LS. I've long since lost interest in Dynamis, but some of the people in my "main" LS are in a Dynamis shell. None of these have scheduling conflicts. If I need anything from HNM that I don't already have, or can't get from Einherjar then I simply buy it.

I hate to side with him as well, but it is alot easier to attend different events with separate shells the way you have described. That way, if you don't like something and need to gtfo, it's not like you're losing every friend you have and need to start from scratch. Flexibility is a key to happiness, at least for me.

[Shinryuu]

Your 5-man LS could also do Limbus and farm like Dyna-Sandy for decent profit as well.

[Viq]

I do Limbus for profit, and I don't need money bad enough to want to spend any time anywhere near Dynamis.

[Brhee]

Basic Pers system goes like this: (gil earned for month / total points earned in a month by all members = gil/point), join LS, can't lot for 1 month, don't receive gilsplit for 1 month, for every item you lot, you lose 25% of your gilsplit for the month (lot 4 items = no split), the money "lost" by people lotting items is NOT accounted for since the bank only splits approx. "half" of gil obtained that month (so they can give out LOANS!). I don't know if they count the points earned by "new" members that can't receive their split. Where does this "lost" money go, you know where it goes, his pocket.
(Confirmed)

When I was asking questions about how the LS worked they told me they did total points / gil and split it as gil per point. If you lotted something you receive a reduction in your gil split but it is still taken out of the bank and accounted as being handed out. What they do with the gil then is what they call "putting it back". Its not added to next months splits, its not added to the total gil for the month just split, its simply put away.

Dioma said himself they "put back" 60m last month. I asked what the 60m was for and why people never got any of it and i was told it paid for Einherjar. I spent some time thinking about the amount of money needed to run einherjar for a month and it came nowhere near 60 million but was new and wasnt going to start shit.

3 days later I stayed up all night over night for a KV that popped 15 hours after window closed. I did this because I knew we had people in LS who needed the helm and I really wanted to see them get it. 1 Was Sasmira who because of her job can only be on for things like this on the weekend. (It was a saturday) Forward to about 9am when it pops and i'm there to alrert the LS to it. LS comes in and kills it, ace's drops. Cool, we got someone a helm right? No. we were told to drop and some guy ive never seen or heard of buys a helm for 4 mil that I spent 15 hours camping. Sure I was angry.

I asked the LS why such things happen and why we wouldnt take care of our own members instead of selling off shit for 4 mil which is jack shit when split 50 ways at the end of the month. Nobody could give me a logical answer. Several LS members told me they didnt agree with the way the LS was ran but the wouldnt leave because they get 4 million gil a month to buy some gear with.


During my 18 days in ls I amassed 700~ points which will prolly be counted toward gil splits but never given out because I left. I was attacked in /t daily by Dioma for asking these questions in LS chat and causing problems between him and the members. All I ever did was try to help his guys out by speaking up, but even some of my oldest friends in the end stayed and sold out for 4 mil a month.

When I left I posted this screenshot of Dioma calling his own LS "shitty players" but even then, they will not leave because I guess they are incapable of making 4 mil on their own each month.

i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm249/Gradius2/ffxi_20100122_000105-1.jpg

Need 10 post to post URLs ; ;


This dioma we speak of is this very same person who used to be known as Xerxes on our server. The same person who after being in Osiris for a while and gaining the trust of a few members, stripped their accounts bare, sold all the items and sold his own gaiters / novio + other shit and RMT it all away. His members are all newer players (2-3 years), or werent in the HNM scene at the time. Most of them prolly have no idea of the fact he did these things
and is most probably going to do it again. The RMT market close to dead for this game so he wont get much rl gil, but his concern for his players does not extend beyond his own wallet, as history has proven. (not searching for the 3 yr old xerxes vs his gf artifact(male) vs stealing money thread)

[Diomer]

I'll speak from the Gilgamesh perspective, I don't know/care about the other leaders mentioned in the OP. I'm sure they did shady shit as well.

The only motivation for people staying in Dioma's LS is the paycheck they receive on a monthly basis. Think of the analogy, you work for a big company where your boss is a major dick, is condescending to you, calls you a shitty worker, takes pride in knowing that HE alone is making you a better worker because of his "incredible leadership and skills". You know he fucks you over but you don't do anything about it because you get enough money to still make you happy enough.

I know from firsthand experience, I got dragged into his LS for a short amount of time. I was in the LS for like a month and made nearly 500 points myself and I have a shitty playtime.
I'm an old player, led a real HNMLS for 6 years, I didn't have 3 mobs to farm to keep all my cronies happy in their servitude. Sandworm, Ixion, and in Dioma's case, KV where they sell Ace's Helm for 5M when people in the LS actually want Ace's Helm.

Basic Pers system goes like this: (gil earned for month / total points earned in a month by all members = gil/point), join LS, can't lot for 1 month, don't receive gilsplit for 1 month, for every item you lot, you lose 25% of your gilsplit for the month (lot 4 items = no split), the money "lost" by people lotting items is NOT accounted for since the bank only splits approx. "half" of gil obtained that month (so they can give out LOANS!). I don't know if they count the points earned by "new" members that can't receive their split. Where does this "lost" money go, you know where it goes, his pocket.
(Confirmed)
At the moment Dioma is 40 (or 60M i forgot) in debt for his Excalibur, but is currently buying currency for Yoichi relic bow (think he's about to hit stage 4), which will turn into another "loan" because he wants to "level into a relic." Going to be a sad day in the summer when he quits for school, 300M in "debt." I got screens somewhere to confirm this but I won't bother.

P.S. I like Nitecon too, he's awesome.

Lol really? I'm buying currency for Yoichi and on stage 4 eh? Interesting... explain this please then:
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/6...0127164833.png
Let's be real here. Lance and I have history from Osiris and he came into my shell still bearing that grudge and looking at me in that light. That unaccounted for money that the bank saves is spent on things like the pair of gaiters I bought and had people bid on and paying for the entire last stage of relics (4 so far - Do the math on how much gil that is) What you see on my ffxiah is for the linkshell (Our goal is to keep a 10,000 currency of each piece except bynes although someone has started to upgrade one of those so I'm buying those now too) Now, knowing that I'll be going to school after summer, I'm not going to take a loan to finish whatever relic I choose to do next if I even choose to do so because I probably would have trouble paying it back. I merely joke around about leveling into a relic like Wopa to add to my legacy of bandwagon hatred and the reality is I'll likely never finish another relic before the end of summer. The trials are to protect ourselves from being taken advantage of because it is so easy to do so (Like Buka said) - prorated splits are given on the 2nd month for hard working individuals. P.S. maybe you should tell everyone where the Osiris bank went if you're going to try to shit on me.

[Diomer]

When I was asking questions about how the LS worked they told me they did total points / gil and split it as gil per point. If you lotted something you receive a reduction in your gil split but it is still taken out of the bank and accounted as being handed out. What they do with the gil then is what they call "putting it back". Its not added to next months splits, its not added to the total gil for the month just split, its simply put away.

Dioma said himself they "put back" 60m last month. I asked what the 60m was for and why people never got any of it and i was told it paid for Einherjar. I spent some time thinking about the amount of money needed to run einherjar for a month and it came nowhere near 60 million but was new and wasnt going to start shit.

3 days later I stayed up all night over night for a KV that popped 15 hours after window closed. I did this because I knew we had people in LS who needed the helm and I really wanted to see them get it. 1 Was Sasmira who because of her job can only be on for things like this on the weekend. (It was a saturday) Forward to about 9am when it pops and i'm there to alrert the LS to it. LS comes in and kills it, ace's drops. Cool, we got someone a helm right? No. we were told to drop and some guy ive never seen or heard of buys a helm for 4 mil that I spent 15 hours camping. Sure I was angry.

I asked the LS why such things happen and why we wouldnt take care of our own members instead of selling off shit for 4 mil which is jack shit when split 50 ways at the end of the month. Nobody could give me a logical answer. Several LS members told me they didnt agree with the way the LS was ran but the wouldnt leave because they get 4 million gil a month to buy some gear with.


During my 18 days in ls I amassed 700~ points which will prolly be counted toward gil splits but never given out because I left. I was attacked in /t daily by Dioma for asking these questions in LS chat and causing problems between him and the members. All I ever did was try to help his guys out by speaking up, but even some of my oldest friends in the end stayed and sold out for 4 mil a month.

When I left I posted this screenshot of Dioma calling his own LS "shitty players" but even then, they will not leave because I guess they are incapable of making 4 mil on their own each month.

i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm249/Gradius2/ffxi_20100122_000105-1.jpg

Need 10 post to post URLs ; ;


This dioma we speak of is this very same person who used to be known as Xerxes on our server. The same person who after being in Osiris for a while and gaining the trust of a few members, stripped their accounts bare, sold all the items and sold his own gaiters / novio + other shit and RMT it all away. His members are all newer players (2-3 years), or werent in the HNM scene at the time. Most of them prolly have no idea of the fact he did these things
and is most probably going to do it again. The RMT market close to dead for this game so he wont get much rl gil, but his concern for his players does not extend beyond his own wallet, as history has proven. (not searching for the 3 yr old xerxes vs his gf artifact(male) vs stealing money thread)

Name the players accounts I stripped. NAME THEM. You RMTed yourself, dont be a hypocrite. Also, what I said and meant was that a lot of the players came in with very low skill and have improved a lot through my tutelage. You'd be wrong about another thing, anyone who asks about "Xerxes" is told what happened. I mentioned in my previous post what they gil thats "put back" was used for and you ignored it. I forgot also that I've bought quite a few pop items with it as well (Namely Autumnstones awhile back and sea triggers.) Sasmira hasn't been in the linkshell but one month and just the other day a trial member got Ace's; it just takes patience. Sasmira may have certainly been a hardcore member in Osiris and I like what I've seen as to her performance thus far, but she has not yet proven herself in PERSEVERANCE. Regardless, she'll end up with her Ace's, just like everyone else. But, let's be real - you went to sleep and were botting KV. Grow the fuck up and move on from the past; I'm a different person and all you did was start drama in the LS and talk shit about me along with Lance the second I was gone. The only reason you see things as condescending is because of your grudges against me and if someone you have a grudge against says anything that could be interpreted in a negative way, you're going to take it that way.

[Brhee]

The Osiris bank was about 4 mil when we ended + a few items worth scraps. It sits on Cryn untouched because the only 3 people still in Osiris when lance and I came back from playing Dioablo 2 were Myself, Him, and Sasmira.

I dont remember the accounts you stripped. One was zeid or something I dont remember who all they were I was in Flowers or Lullaby at the time but I do know it happened and that there was a 50 page + thread about it on here. With Artifact telling on you for having "her" sell ls drops on a mule and using the money for yourself. Its all here somewhere. I'm just not searching it.

[Diomer]

The Osiris bank was about 4 mil when we ended + a few items worth scraps. It sits on Cryn untouched because the only 3 people still in Osiris when lance and I came back from playing Dioablo 2 were Myself, Him, and Sasmira.

I dont remember the accounts you stripped. One was zeid or something I dont remember who all they were I was in Flowers or Lullaby at the time but I do know it happened and that there was a 50 page + thread about it on here. With Artifact telling on you for having "her" sell ls drops on a mule and using the money for yourself. Its all here somewhere. I'm just not searching it.

Might wanna get your story straight because it was my RL friend who I put my novio on and regardless you're still citing 3-4 year old shit that I have apologized for how I acted immaturely when a sackholder told me that "people had plans to do things to me in RL and my RL address was posted on the admin forums" and I've moved on from it; maybe you should do the same. I never even had Zeid's account access, that's all just bullshit rumors like people who think I did the same to Valkurm. Anytime anything happened, I'm the anti-christ that did it. Ironically enough with one person you mentioned, Zeid begged Baneric for access to his account and he gave in only to get stripped a couple days later by him (This was back when this was a small linkshell with the pearlholder being Zeid) and almost made him quit. I gave Baneric gil out of my own pocket to make sure he didn't quit. This is just another example of you not knowing what the fuck you're talking about.

[Callisto]

Lol really? I'm buying currency for Yoichi and on stage 4 eh? Interesting... explain this please then:
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/6...0127164833.png
Let's be real here. Lance and I have history from Osiris and he came into my shell still bearing that grudge and looking at me in that light. That unaccounted for money that the bank saves is spent on things like the pair of gaiters I bought and had people bid on and paying for the entire last stage of relics (4 so far - Do the math on how much gil that is) What you see on my ffxiah is for the linkshell (Our goal is to keep a 10,000 currency of each piece except bynes although someone has started to upgrade one of those so I'm buying those now too) Now, knowing that I'll be going to school after summer, I'm not going to take a loan to finish whatever relic I choose to do next if I even choose to do so because I probably would have trouble paying it back. I merely joke around about leveling into a relic like Wopa to add to my legacy of bandwagon hatred and the reality is I'll likely never finish another relic before the end of summer. The trials are to protect ourselves from being taken advantage of because it is so easy to do so (Like Buka said) - prorated splits are given on the 2nd month for hard working individuals. P.S. maybe you should tell everyone where the Osiris bank went if you're going to try to shit on me.

holy crap when did they add WotG teleport rings?