Member motivation in "Leader gets all" LS

[Dooom]

Few updates ago (same as Rose Strap etc. iirc), buy 'em from Sanction NPCs for AN. Don't think they need high rank either.

[Brhee]

If I am the only person on our server who thinks you are a dishonest, backstabbing, gil stealing, LS cheating, 1/2 a fag little kid who is only using pers for your own benefit, I'll delete my character tonight. I bet even your own ls members would agree with me, - the top 3 gil takers + your "gf" (respect for her I wont drag her into this)

[Diomer]

If I am the only person on our server who thinks you are a dishonest, backstabbing, gil stealing, LS cheating, 1/2 a fag little kid who is only using pers for your own benefit, I'll delete my character tonight. I bet even your own ls members would agree with me, - the top 3 gil takers + your "gf" (respect for her I wont drag her into this)

Nowhere did I say you are the only one, I said the opposite in fact. You're entitled to your ignorant opinions and have displayed that you just have no idea what the fuck you're talking about, but try doodling them on your notebook or a dry erase board to vent instead of spewing your shit here thinking anyone gives a shit. I'm not going to bother throwing insults back at you.

Oh and by the way, I'm the piece of shit that dragged my LS up in our free time to kill Byakkos for him and another member, who left along with him, on two seperate occasions and let them have whatever they wanted from those pops (because they bought or farmed them but still had people head up there to help them.) I benefited quite a lot from that obviously. What's half a fag btw?

[Dench]

hi.

I assume the systems are still about the same as when I was a sack in Pers. They were fair and functioned properly. I should know as I was part of setting it up. While Dioma and myself had lots of personal issues, the truth is he's a good guy. I have witnessed him give more chances and help to people that didn't deserve it. It bit him on the ass on a few occassions.

The fact is the guy was always there and, while it may sound rude, did turn a lot of shitty players into "ok players". He puts his time in and gets a huge return. Honestly, I put a lot of time in and could have gotten a bit more than a horn if I had really wanted to.

[Demosthenes11]

If I am the only person on our server who thinks you are a dishonest, backstabbing, gil stealing, LS cheating, 1/2 a fag little kid who is only using pers for your own benefit, I'll delete my character tonight. I bet even your own ls members would agree with me, - the top 3 gil takers + your "gf" (respect for her I wont drag her into this)

damn, never knew mob opinion made things fact

[Tagus]

the fact is the guy was always there and, while it may sound rude, did turn a lot of shitty players into "ok players"

I generally find this statement when made by leaders of any linkshell to be the height of arrogance. Maybe this is because I've heard so many linkshell leaders say it in cases where they were defending themselves against accusations of selfish decision-making... but for the sake of argument, could you explain how he did this? I'm being serious, and I promise not to troll your response. Just trying to figure out some shit on my own level, that's all.

[Dench]

I generally find this statement when made by leaders of any linkshell to be the height of arrogance. Maybe this is because I've heard so many linkshell leaders say it in cases where they were defending themselves against accusations of selfish decision-making... but for the sake of argument, could you explain how he did this? I'm being serious, and I promise not to troll your response. Just trying to figure out some shit on my own level, that's all.

yous trollin.

we had lots of players who had little to no access to a computer and had, for a lack of better response at the moment, very poor technique. streamlining and efficiency. doing more with less. he would actually take the time to talk to them and offer advice. be available to discuss issues. help troubleshoot.

[Diomer]

I generally find this statement when made by leaders of any linkshell to be the height of arrogance. Maybe this is because I've heard so many linkshell leaders say it in cases where they were defending themselves against accusations of selfish decision-making... but for the sake of argument, could you explain how he did this? I'm being serious, and I promise not to troll your response. Just trying to figure out some shit on my own level, that's all.

It only sounds arrogant when it's by itself but when you have someone telling you that you're basically a shitty leader despite having worked 2 years to take a new sky shell wiping to Byakkos into one of two remaining HNMLS on the server, it's merely a statement to defend against that. I've just tried to work with people on what to do in situations until they can do it properly (Mainly holding Ixion + SW 'til porter PLDs arrive has been a struggle for a lot of people. Trying to teach people to lock draw in on KV, etc.) and although I can be VERY abrasive and harsh, it does get the point through and I'm not always like that.

[Thorny]

Totally out of place since most idiots consider it acceptable, but..
Why the fuck is it okay for a shell to drop the gil for someones last stage because they bought the rest? If I put up 25m, will your shell give me the other half for a kraken club? It's a hell of a lot more useful to the shell! It's a terrible system to begin with, this shell just makes it worse because the leader is getting more than the rest of the ls combined out of it.

[Brhee]

damn, never knew mob opinion made things fact

Well add up what it would take for someone to get aegis, burt, appoc, and excal, (last 3 all in 3-4 months) and explain it to me. Figure out what kind of gil splits he would need to be able to pay for all these items. This is where you will find your "facts".

I finished my horn in summer of last year. Currency prices were

Shells 16k each
Bronze 13k each
Bynes 8k each
Alexandrite 3~4k each

The fact is, someone just isnt going to make enough money in 3 months to pay for all these things in a ls with 40 people with "fair" splits and no money being stolen. If he is "always there" then he isnt making money crafting or anything else he has to rely on LS sales to do it. If his gilsplits are so amazing that he can afford 4 relics in a year and 3 in 3 months, surely his ls can afford relics too right? But they have none. (As stated in the first post by Nyn)

[Lamo]

Dench whurr you be babygurl I miss you!!! And good luck getting people to admit they we a nub at one point in time

[Tagus]

yous trollin.

we had lots of players who had little to no access to a computer and had, for a lack of better response at the moment, very poor technique. streamlining and efficiency. doing more with less. he would actually take the time to talk to them and offer advice. be available to discuss issues. help troubleshoot.

Ain't trollin.

My thoughts were that I've heard it said by ALOT of LS leaders that they've made their players better. Many of them were annoying to hear it from, because they fucking sucked as leaders, and statements such as that reek of an overestimation of one's own self-importance. However, none of the people I've heard say that even knew someone personally who was successful enough to be included in a thread like this one. And that ain't a joke, believe me. If this dude actually did turn shitty players good, I'd like to hear how he did it, in your estimation. I know you can't quantify good leadership, but you can definitely learn from examples of it.

[Diomer]

Totally out of place since most idiots consider it acceptable, but..
Why the fuck is it okay for a shell to drop the gil for someones last stage because they bought the rest? If I put up 25m, will your shell give me the other half for a kraken club? It's a hell of a lot more useful to the shell! It's a terrible system, and the only reason this shell is one of the first to have complaints about it is because the leader's gotten more relics through it than the rest of the members combined.

I've completed the same amount of relics as for other people 3:3. The problem is that one left (Dench, hi!) and another had left but recently came back so it appears a little different. Also, one thing you must realize is that there's some misconception that I lot everything but I haven't lotted much at all and I've never needed anything buyable at the AH so all my gil has gone into that effort alone whereas the majority of our members have started out really not even seeing an HNM and being to put it frank, quite poor when it came to AH gear so their money has been spent to improve that as well as they've been a lot of lotting items and losing parts of their split for it, combined with the fact that there are only a few people in the shell who have the playtime I do; most of them are a lot more casual. I could provide an example of this with a gil split if you really wanted, lol.

[Diomer]

Well add up what it would take for someone to get aegis, burt, appoc, and excal, (last 3 all in 3-4 months) and explain it to me. Figure out what kind of gil splits he would need to be able to pay for all these items. This is where you will find your "facts".

I finished my horn in summer of last year. Currency prices were

Shells 16k each
Bronze 13k each
Bynes 8k each
Alexandrite 3~4k each

The fact is, someone just isnt going to make enough money in 3 months to pay for all these things in a ls with 40 people with "fair" splits and no money being stolen. If he is "always there" then he isnt making money crafting or anything else he has to rely on LS sales to do it. If his gilsplits are so amazing that he can afford 4 relics in a year and 3 in 3 months, surely his ls can afford relics too right? But they have none. (As stated in the first post by Nyn)

Read my post sweetheart and look at the relics I did. Apocalypse (Bynes 3 > 4 made it extremely cheap as I had accumulated some cheap Silvers + Jades before even thinking about another relic.) Excalibur (L Jades 3 > 4 and I had a loan of 45M along with 16 L Jades from an LS member to get to finish Caliburn) Also, like Buka said, him and Mashiara contributed large portions of their gil to my Burtgang (Mashiara gave me her split monthly so that I could buy Alex) and Buka some 20M that he got hacked and quit before I paid back. Excal got started so fast with Torian's account being recalled and then quitting and giving it to me and Batista quitting and leaving me a good sum of money as well. There are explanations; you just don't ask for them and would rather assume things.

Edit: Lol Bynes @ 8k on Gilga? You must've just been buying whatever you found in a bazaar since I've never paid over 6k for one.

[Thorny]

I've completed the same amount of relics as for other people 3:3. The problem is that one left (Dench, hi!) and another had left but recently came back so it appears a little different. Also, one thing you must realize is that there's some misconception that I lot everything but I haven't lotted much at all and I've never needed anything buyable at the AH so all my gil has gone into that effort alone whereas the majority of our members have started out really not even seeing an HNM and being to put it frank, quite poor when it came to AH gear so their money has been spent to improve that as well as they've been a lot of lotting items and losing parts of their split for it, combined with the fact that there are only a few people in the shell who have the playtime I do; most of them are a lot more casual. I could provide an example of this with a gil split if you really wanted, lol.

My point is nothing to do with gil splits, items recieved, or even how you run your linkshell really. I was just pointing out that in general, sponsoring last stage of relics is retarded. When you'll give me 25m to match my 25 so I can buy a KC, or consider doing the same for members, you might be able to justify it.

More Precise Version(Idk why I said shorter really, but ty for pointing it out Nynja): You gave away 21,000 currency to people to finish their last stages. You kept 21,000 currency to finish your last stages(at least, I hope you didn't keep the refunds too). Now, there was not an equivalent bonus to give to people not upgrading relics, so realistically(going to value currency at 12k each because i don't feel like calculating values for your server and which pieces are used for each final stage) you've spent 12 * 42000 = 504m on relics for your linkshell(6 last stages). Out of this 504m, 3 people recieved 84m each to finish their stages. You recieved 252m. The remainder of your members, who also put time into the events that generated this gil, recieved nothing.

[Dench]

Dench whurr you be babygurl I miss you!!! And good luck getting people to admit they we a nub at one point in time

hi. i am at home! i told dioma i would come back for an AV attempt or PW if he wanted but other than that, i have no plans on reactivating my account. i originally was hoping to finish up the storylines but i just don't care enough to put the time in, i guess. one mission and i was sick of it.

If this dude actually did turn shitty players good, I'd like to hear how he did it, in your estimation.

Don't get me wrong.. Dioma doesn't work some magic and make all shitty players into great players. He would show a lot of patience with a lot of inexperienced members (more than i ever could, ngl) and was available for help, as i believe i stated.

(Dench, hi!)

hi.

[Diomer]

My point is nothing to do with gil splits, items recieved, or even how you run your linkshell really. I was just pointing out that in general, sponsoring last stage of relics is retarded. When you'll give me 25m to match my 25 so I can buy a KC, or consider doing the same for members, you might be able to justify it.

Short version: You gave away 21,000 currency to people to finish their last stages. You kept 21,000 currency to finish your last stages(at least, I hope you didn't keep the refunds too). Now, there was not an equivalent bonus to give to people not upgrading relics, so realistically(going to value currency at 12k each because i don't feel like calculating values for your server and which pieces are used for each final stage) you've spent 12 * 42000 = 504m on relics for your linkshell(6 last stages). Out of this 504m, 3 people recieved 84m each to finish their stages. You recieved 252m. The remainder of your members, who also put time into the events that generated this gil, recieved nothing.

Keeping refunds would be terrible. The only reason you may see it as unfair is because only these few people have finished relics yet all others who meet the requirements are encouraged to do the same. I do understand what you're saying but I think relics are a hard thing period as even sponsoring for them can be seen as unfair depending on how its done. Sometimes, there's just no way to win.

[Thorny]

Keeping refunds would be terrible. The only reason you may see it as unfair is because only these few people have finished relics yet all others who meet the requirements are encouraged to do the same. I do understand what you're saying but I think relics are a hard thing period as even sponsoring for them can be seen as unfair depending on how its done.

Sponsoring is unfair, you're paying 500k to get 4-5m and giving members nothing. Having your shell pay for the lion's share of your currency is unfair. Requiring members to get half to recieve the other half is retarded(you got 3 half relics free, why not take one half relic free and pay for another member's relic). You designed the system to benefit yourself. If every member in the shell had half and wanted it finished, the bank would not be able to afford it.

Sometimes, there's just no way to win.

You could, you know, earn your relic(s).

[NynJa]

the short version is longer than the original version >.> lol

[Titanss]

I agree some of these posts need to be brought down a bit, I think it is a interesting thread but fuck i don't wanna read these long ass posts

you people couldn't have that many interesting things to say