NASA: Love is Over Barak Obama

[Takedown3]

gonna have to rename the moon to branson soon since it's likely that the american flag will be replaced by a virgin records super store sooner rather then later

[Kryssan]

Ok, I wasn't going to bite the bait, but dammit, here goes:

Noting that the (then) recently completed manned mission around the moon yielded very little valuable information and cost a great deal of money—Werner von Braun wrote that space exploration is still worth it.

Why?

“To say at this time that man in space has made little contribution to scientific knowledge or to economic returns is like saying that an eight-year-old child has made no worthwhile contribution to humanity,” wrote von Braun.

I guess that was his way of trying to keep the dollars flowing: he suggested that the returns will come later. But I don’t think that this is a very sensible or honest answer. Decades later, we still can’t justify spaceflight based on economic returns. It’s costly and the monetary returns are questionable.

The real answer is this: financial returns is not the only reason for doing things.

We don’t have children based on financial returns. It costs a lot of money to raise them, and they often do not “pay off.” We don’t go out to dinner or to movies or amusement parks for financial returns. We just enjoy doing those things. Financially, they harm us.

Von Braun was just a guy though, and it is a simplistic debate in its presentation. I wonder how many people even know his name.




So lets move on to the practical stuff. How about stuff directly from the Apollo programs?

With the success of the Apollo program, NASA delivered great progress in the fields of rocketry and aeronautics, as well as the fields of civil, mechanical, and electrical engineering. Lesser known accomplishments are some of the many spinoffs that came from the Apollo program—partnerships created between NASA and industry to commercialize the technologies developed for the historic missions to the Moon.


Cooling Suits Provide Comfort
Cool suits, which kept Apollo astronauts comfortable during moon walks, are today worn by race car drivers, nuclear reactor technicians, shipyard workers, people with multiple sclerosis and children with a congenital disorder known as hypohidrotic ectodermal dysplasia, which restricts the body’s ability to cool itself. +Read More

Recycling Fluids for Space Missions Simplifies Kidney Dialysis
Special kidney dialysis machines were created as a result of a NASA-developed chemical process that removes toxic waste from used dialysis fluid. The process saves electricity and eliminates the need for a continuous water supply, granting the patient greater freedom. +Read More

Astronaut Conditioning Equipment Keeps People Fit
A cardiovascular conditioner developed for astronauts in space led to the invention of a physical therapy and athletic development machine used by football teams, sports clinics, and medical rehabilitation centers. +Read More

Space Suit Technology Modernizes Athletic Shoes
Athletic shoe design and manufacturing also benefited from Apollo. Space suit technology is incorporated into a shoe's external shell, and a stress-free "blow molding" process adapted from NASA space suit design is used in the shoe's fabrication. +Read More

Reflective Materials Insulate Homes
Insulating barriers made of metalized foil laid over a core of propylene or mylar, which protected astronauts and their spacecraft's delicate instruments from radiation and heat, are now found in common home insulation. Vacuum metalizing techniques also led to an extensive line of commercial products, from insulated outer garments to packaging for foods, from wall coverings to window shades, from life rafts to candy wrappings, and from reflective safety blankets to photographic reflectors.+Read More

Apollo Life Support Systems Filter Water
Water purification technology used on the Apollo spacecraft is now employed in several spinoff applications to kill bacteria, viruses and algae in community water supply systems and cooling towers. Filters mounted on faucets reduce lead in water supplies. +Read More

Freeze-Dried Foods Preserve Nutrients, Increase Shelf Life
Freeze-dried food solved the problem of what to feed an astronaut on the long-duration Apollo missions. Freeze drying foods preserves nutritional value and taste, while also reducing weight and increasing shelf life.+Read More

Apollo-era Circuitry Preserves Freshness for Large-Scale Service
A hospital food service system employs a NASA cook/chill concept for serving food. The system allows staff to prepare food well in advance, maintain heat, visual appeal, and nutritional value while reducing operating costs. +Read More

Measurement Techniques Safely Monitor Hazardous Gasses
A hollow retroreflector, a mirror-like instrument that reflects light and other radiation back to the source, is used as a sensor to detect the presence of hazardous gases in oil fields, refineries, offshore platforms, chemical plants, waste storage sites, and other locations where gases could be released into the environment. +Read More

Lubricant Process Finds Myriad Applications
A process for bonding dry lubricant to space metals led to the development of surface enhancement, or synergistic, coatings, which are used in applications from pizza making to laser manufacturing. Each coating is designed to protect a specific metal group or group of metals to solve problems encountered under operating conditions, such as resistance to corrosion and wear. +Read More

Green Buildings Employ Space Suit Textiles
The same fabric used in Apollo-era space suits has been spun off into a cost-effective, environmentally-friendly building material. Used on structures around the world, the Teflon-coated fiberglass strands create a permanent, tent-like roof. Less expensive than conventional roofing materials, the durable white fabric allows natural light to shine through, saving a significant amount of energy. +Read More

Insulation Protects Alaskan Pipeline
Metal-bonded polyurethane foam insulation developed for protecting Apollo-era spacecraft was also applied to the Alaskan pipeline, where its temperature controlling properties were in high demand. In order to maintain its fluidity, the oil needs to be kept at relatively high temperatures (180 °F), a tall order in the Arctic. The NASA-derived insulation solved this problem. +Read More

Flame-Resistant Textiles Safeguard Firefighters, Soldiers
After a fire on the Apollo launch pad which resulted in the death of three astronauts, NASA worked with private industry to develop a line of fire-resistant textiles for use in space suits and vehicles. These materials are now used in numerous firefighting, military, motor sports, and other applications. +Read More

The overall space program itself, I agree, has added far more than we ever could have imagined had we not had it, and its not as if NASA is going away completely, or there probably would be some serious outrage. But a lot of information has indeed been derived from sending people into space, and I don't really believe you can say the space community as a majority feels that sending people into space is a waste. Certainly not those involved in the aging and decrepit STS programs; they knew the STSs needed to be replaced, that they are majorly outmoded and outdated, but it was still worth using them. That should say something just by itself.

[ephel]

Not to mention all the shit we have now due to NASA? Teflon, the sensors and instrumentation that keep patients alive in hospital intensive care units came originally from technology developed to keep astronauts alive in their spacecraft. The lightweight, nonflammable materials that we use in windsurfing, skiing, firefighting and a thousand other ways came out of space technology.

All these great things still could have been made without going to space, but yes the process was greatly sped up.

[Day]

Well you guys worry bout your teflon and tang, some people out there are worried about a place to live and eat.

[Cephius]

good

/THREAD

Hey, captain one-word, don't tell me how to post. You actually managed to contribute less than me and my poor analogies.

Also, seriously people, did anyone bother reading past the title? They're not killing the space program. In fact, they might not even be downsizing it at all, just giving them less of a raise than previously thought:

Officials said NASA was expected to see some "modest" increase in its current $18.7 billion annual budget — possibly $200 million to $300 million more but far less than the $1 billion boost agency officials had hoped for

And they plan to extend the life of the International Space Station, a lab for (among many other things) learning about how the human body reacts in Zero-G for extended periods of time, some critical research needed if we want to travel deeper into space. So honestly, even if you're upset that we're not going to the moon (for now) it's not like it's like this is even a serious setback for future manned space travel.

tl;dr READ BEFORE YOU QQ

[Meresgi]

They aren't doing away with NASA... just downsizing it's budget and limiting its focus. All that stuff you mentioned did not require landing on the moon to invent.

It was all developed for sending people into space, and since all if it came about due to our race to go to the moon...it did not require it, but a lot of it was made FOR it.

[BerenTebogo]

Ok, I wasn't going to bite the bait, but dammit, here goes:







Von Braun was just a guy though, and it is a simplistic debate in its presentation. I wonder how many people even know his name.




So lets move on to the practical stuff. How about stuff directly from the Apollo programs?





The overall space program itself, I agree, has added far more than we ever could have imagined had we not had it, and its not as if NASA is going away completely, or there probably would be some serious outrage. But a lot of information has indeed been derived from sending people into space, and I don't really believe you can say the space community as a majority feels that sending people into space is a waste. Certainly not those involved in the aging and decrepit STS programs; they knew the STSs needed to be replaced, that they are majorly outmoded and outdated, but it was still worth using them. That should say something just by itself.

I would trade every single one of those innovations, which could have been developed in anticipation of going to space not the act of being there, for enough money to develop a telescope that can actually see the event horizon of a black hole,

What is more important? Insulation for race car drivers or first hand information from points in space whwhere all the rules of physics crumble to nothing? Scientific leaps and bound > textile innovations that are hardly unique.

Allocate the exploration budget to r&d.

[Rhinox]

same could be said for healthcare, whether we should have it or not

wat

again, same could be said for his healthcare plan lol



this

And the retard doubles down. gg

[Meresgi]

All these great things still could have been made without going to space, but yes the process was greatly sped up.

Would they have had been? You can't really say this. Advances in technology require a reason beyond just "for the betterment". There has to be a goal already set to push it along.

[Kryssan]

Yes, the principle research of climate change, right Sath?


Lets waste more money on another Copenhagen, right?

[Day]

Or lets have another person bounce around on the moon right Kryssan?

[Tristam]

I would trade every single one of those innovations, which could have been developed in anticipation of going to space not the act of being there, for enough money to develop a telescope that can actually see the event horizon of a black hole,

What is more important? Insulation for race car drivers or first hand information from points in space whwhere all the rules of physics crumble to nothing? Scientific leaps and bound > textile innovations that are hardly unique.

Allocate the exploration budget to r&d.

The thing is, a basic science R&D budget is a very, very tough sell to taxpayers even if all lines of evidence support R&D as a good public economic investment through knowledge developed. It's why the NIH budget is something like 5x the NSF budget.

The public needs a carrot of some sort.

[BRP]

Why don't we just send terrorists to the moon? That way everyone gets what they want.

[Amastacia]

I'm totally fine with this. The entire Ares program has been one giant pool of sick that has been one failure after another.

Spend more of the budget on useful research, push off a trip that really doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things, and re-schedule it for when we have a working spacecraft to get there, more rationale for actually going, and stand to gain more from the trip.

[Day]

I'm sure all these people will enjoy it and have something to watch and enjoy with their free time.

[Kryssan]

Or lets have another person bounce around on the moon right Kryssan?

Why not? Can't be any more worthless than the alternative being posed.

[ephel]

Would they have had been? You can't really say this. Advances in technology require a reason beyond just "for the betterment". There has to be a goal already set to push it along.

Yes because at some point man will ask for a better safeguard for firefighters, they didn't use moonrocks to make this new gear. Like i said, going to space sped up many discoveries. Whether its for the betterment of spacegoers or earthgoers it will probably happen.

Can someone explain to me how in a rush we got onto the moon 40 years ago, but they are having trouble with the new Ares rocket. Is it lack of funding?

[Xno Kappa]

Can someone explain to me how in a rush we got onto the moon 40 years ago, but they are having trouble with the new Ares rocket. Is it lack of funding?

In my opinion, it's because we never landed on the moon to begin with.

[BerenTebogo]

Yes, the principle research of climate change, right Sath?


Lets waste more money on another Copenhagen, right?

You're idiotically claiming that the advancements made 40+ years ago are unique and mutually exclusive of any independent R&D which is a blatant falsehood.

The advancements made from the apollo program IN CONTRAST to the advancements made from unmanned exploration of all forms to our way of life today and society as a whole make you look even stupider.

Manned missions to space are an EXTRAORDINARY drain on the budget, not to mention EXTREMELY dangerous at the present time. Also, you neglect to mention that while at the time those examples may have been innovative, but currently a large amount of the development and furtherance of all of those projects is in the hands of private corporations. Also that private industries are making much stronger headway in technical applications and equipment that may one day be used in space.

At present we can go to the space station or the moon. It is physically impossible any time in the near future for us, or anyone on earth, to send someone to Mars. This is hard scientific fact. The latest bit of information we've gotten from the moon was from an unmanned mission and provided more insight into the make-up of our moon than 40 years of analyzing the data from the apollo program, cool huh?

Innovation does not exist in a vacuum and more often than not technological breakthroughs are cracked by many groups within the same time period.

The possible increased budget coupled with the temporary eradication of the exploration funding will do more for our technical, theoretical, and practical advancement than you will ever be able to understand, as is evidenced by your ignorance of the importance the potential discoveries still to be made in the universe.

There are thousands of stellar black holes at the center of our own galaxy and a super-massive black hole in a state that can only be described as dormant because of our lack of understanding of it (we think that the energy expelled is so powerful that it is equaling the gravitational force that it yields) and the same is true about the center of every galaxy. But hell, who cares about that, let's get some fucking moon rocks.

[Cephius]

Can someone explain to me how in a rush we got onto the moon 40 years ago, but they are having trouble with the new Ares rocket. Is it lack of funding?

Probably, they spent about $100 billion (inflation adjusted) during the space race, and that was with the sole goal of putting a man on the moon. We only spend $18 billion a year now, and that encompasses a ton of different programs.