Salvage~ When is SCH a good thing?

[pchan]

And yet another reason you overrate mnk in salvage. Sam can do the entire run without subjob easily.

can you do it with your middle finger in your ass and a PS2 contoller in the other hand?

More seriously, are you suggesting to give first 2 JA to SCH and RDM, just because you *can* kill stuff w/o SJ ? No, you don't.

[FailureMidgard]

can you do it with your middle finger in your ass and a PS2 contoller in the other hand?

More seriously, are you suggesting to give first 2 JA to SCH and RDM, just because you *can* kill stuff w/o SJ ? No, you don't.

Nope, I'm just pointing out that mnk is more cell inefficient than sam, kinda like scholar is to rdm.

Why are you even relating JA and SJ? I am saying you can give SJ to a rdm first in say arrapago, who can then paralyna, erase, poisona, etc because there is 0 need for a SJ to tank bhoot or psycheflayer. Assuming you use a sam,

[Ohemgee]

kinda like scholar is to rdm.

No

[FailureMidgard]

No

Convincing argument. I'm sorry, I think rdm+whm is almost universally better than rdm+sch. I furthermore think that in Zhayolm, whm+sch is better than rdm+sch. I have scholar leveled, I've played it and seen it played in salvage. Since the whm update, there is no reason to choose a scholar other than you have a good scholar friend available and don't have another mage. Outside of that, they are less efficient with their cells than a white or red mage. They need 3 cells before they become useful, and with all 3 cells are no more useful than a white mage. A white mage still would love to have all 3, but can wait, and is far more useful with less cells.

[Mojo]

Clearly, you don't know what you are talking about. Never should the run be getting slow because the you are resting MP. If that's the case your melees suck and they should be swapped for something else. Saying that SCH is required so that mages can rest MP is RETARDED. I do all my runs with WHM+RDM and no bard or cor, and both absolutely never rest MP. So if you need stoneskin ga, you are doing wrong.

The only thing usefull about SCH is enspells, nothing else.

I'll be blunt. You have completely misunderstood yet another post. I never suggested at any point that either group would need to rest or that a SCH helps because it would allow the group's mages to rest. You're colossally retarded for even thinking this for even one second.

The issue, which I explained earlier, was that it's simply a matter of how much time your mages spend doing buffs or casting cures. A SCH can apply buffs in a few seconds and is then free to do other things that can greatly increase how smoothly and quickly your runs go. We're talking about mobs that take only a few seconds to kill. The time you spend between mobs is very significant, good logistics far outweigh any minute difference between enspells on all members and an infrequent weaponskill from one. That difference hasn't actually been successfully quantized. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see enspells come out on top.

[Pivotal]

haha i went to work for a meeting and came home was 2 pages longer than when i left XD this has become interesting..... so many opinions ! so much to read~!

[Strai]

I've played sch countless times in salvage with a whm. I've also taken first Magic, SJ, and JA in Arrapago and completed everything in the run countless times with this setup.


Imagine that.

[Nightfyre]

Sorry, I know absolutely nothing about Blu, is Regurgitation an interrupt (stun)? Or is it just decent damage from the back for no hate (according to wiki) so therefore a good idea.

The latter. The only add effect with Regurgitation is Bind.

[Beave]

My salv group used to use war/nin(ridill rocks on first floor), drg/sam, thf/nin, brd/whm, rdm/whm, rdm/whm which worked nicely. Later though one member leveled sch, so we started using rdm/whm and sch/rdm along with the brd for support. I can't say it was monumentally better, but I'd say it provided a little bit more of a streamlined process.

With sch you can keep up stoneskin/phalanx/enspells/regen/etc for the group leaving the rdm to hasting and healing. With all those buffs, especially on first floors, melee took hits for 0's most all of the time. For gears/etc stoneskinga and regenga were nice assets as well. Also, it's much more mp efficient for sch to keep up phalanx, than rdms casting phalanx2 (though it's still nice to have merited for times when you can't/don't want to take sch).

Basically it's just a preference thing, but I enjoyed having a sch in the group. I'd definitely rather have rdm+sch than rdm+rdm...I'd probably even prefer sch over whm.

[Byrthnoth]

We took BLU to Zhayolm to stunlock forgs for us. They're also good for Diamondhide and Magus Roll on the boss.

[Seedz]

Pchan, I'd be interested in watching a video of a <7 min clear of 6th floor in Arrapago with MNK, MNK, RDM, WHM and a cell-less THF. I own pretty much all the gear you'd want for MNK, and it's perhaps my most loved melee job, but I can't honestly see how it's even possible to do that. Sometimes with my MNK and an average polearm SAM *with* soul voiced marches we don't kill them all in time, and everyone knows how much do polearm SAMs rape gears (at least mine does).

[NynJa]

1) ability after the monks because ability is their source of damage
2) SJ after the 1st monk because he will not get SJ making it very hard to tank stuff like the flayer or the bhoot.
3) magic any order is fine.

I thought you could steal SJ from QQA, and have 6 chances at SJ cells on 4f...I guess that only applies to my server?

And what the fuck is this shit about e-peening on arrapago? I've done arrapagos where we got shafted on cells so hard, our blu didnt get magic till the 5f chariot dropped it for them nor a weapon till the 4f QQTH, and STILL cleared the area. Really, arrapago is a joke of an area.

[Nevex]

Ever had one of those Arrapago runs with TH4 from the start and not a single ranged cell until very late in the run? Yes, they do happen. Arrapago isn't THAT easy when it happens.

[Tsuki]

shitting up more threads, pchan? you're absolutely absurd and retarded in almost every conceivable way. I've never seen you say ANYTHING worthwhile. the only thing you ever seem to do is down anything that isn't MNK or anything that takes the focus away from MNK. Like, it sucks that MNK is the only job you have the aptitude to play(I daresay), but get the fuck off the scholar nuts just because you could never come close to being efficient as a scholar. fuck off french frog faggot.

[Andradi]

I've never seen you say ANYTHING worthwhile.

He totally didn't help with the crit rate data gathering, or the current pDIf calculations that are going on, the old spell interrupt testing. No, pchan never does anything useful.

Retard.

The anti-pchan bandwagon is old and tired, the people on it are for the most part more retarded than pchan himself. The racism doesn't make you look cool, either.

[Nightfyre]

The French are a race now?

He's an idiot with a brain, nothing new around here. He just happens to also be a frequent poster, an easy target, and one of the few people who will actually get off their ass and test something. Neither side is totally right and neither side is wrong. Can we all quit bickering about Pchan and get back to Salvage please?

[Thorny]

Pchan is more competent than 80% of this board. This doesn't change that the stupid things he says are, well, extremely stupid. Most of the people making fun of him really aren't in a place to do so, but the people who are familiar with mechanics sure do get a laugh out of him.

[Beave]

We took BLU to Zhayolm to stunlock forgs for us. They're also good for Diamondhide and Magus Roll on the boss.

We took BLU to Zhayolm to stunlock forgs for us.

We took BLU to Zhayolm

We took BLU

BLU

Guess I did read that right.

[NynJa]

He totally didn't help with the crit rate data gathering, or the current pDIf calculations that are going on, the old spell interrupt testing.

pchan
Bagel

pchan's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,483
FFXI Server: Quetzalcoatl


http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showt...ght=crit+build
I dont see any pchan in there. In fact the last post of the thread was around the time he joined.

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showt...ght=crit+build
This thread was started before he registered.

I mean these were the original crit discussions.

[Aemora]

I get that every single group has their own way of doing things, and for the majority of the time, once they find something that works well for them, they tend to stick by the generic structure of that group, so seeing beyond what is already acceptable to folks is kinda hard. Each group do things their own way; our group used to skip QQTH because we never needed Coats. Retarded skipping them? No, it's retarded killing them and wasting time on something you don't need. Hell, I remember once killing QQTH specifally for an Incus cell because we got majorly deprived from the beginning.

I'm a native Blm, but Sch at heart. I absolutely love the job for what it can do. I have salvaged with some pretty inefficient Scholars (both in and out of Salvage) and they are like a Brd curing with a Rdm SJ. Sch is all about how you use and abuse the JAs and spells. Stoneskinga is damn good, Phalanxga lets the majority of non-gear mobs hit your DD's for 10-20 a time, depending on floor, and Stoneskisnga eats the AoE damage that would otherwise have to be restored by a Whm or Rdm, or again Brd/Whm... I know that Prot and Shell last for 30m, but Accessioning these (without a Whm) saves a shitload of MP from those spells alone, and the core premise behind the job is to Conserve MP, which SE blatantly spelled out for us when they released SCH roll.

Untimately, gear cells generally go to those who can use them best. Head cell drops... You give it to the Duelist Chapeau Rdm or the Walahra Turban Mnk? Like every single cell in Salvage, it's all about efficiency, and each group finds their own way of being efficient within their own cluster of available jobs. I've full-timed Sch in Salvage since four months after WoTG was released, and allowed our Whm to come on a variety of other jobs should she wish to (Mainly Brd or Rdm, but occasionally Drg or Rng for shit and giggles).

Salvage is the only real event I do anymore, so I want it to be fun. The most fun I've ever had was a 4 man arrapago that absolutely sucked beyond belief and wiped in more glorious ways than you could ever imagine, but it was fun doing it. :D