Why are you looking forward to FF14?

[Plow]

Was just implying it crossed a point of XIV relation to XI-knowledge dickwaving. Succinctly, we know XI's itemization sucked. RotZ, CoP, ToAU, WotG, or whatever else came about like enchantments or synergy should really hold no weight in XIV outside of passing resemblances with graphical throwbacks. Same with jobs, really.

it really wasn't that though, it just developed into huge ass posts

but anyway, point being I'm looking forward to the prospect of potential progression

even if there's never any level cap shifts and whatnot, no reason there can't be a reasonable progression along the lines of

sky stuff and 3 big normals prepares you for kirin and kings prepare you for sea prepares you for AV and wyrms prepare you for salvage and nyzul prepare you for ein prepares you for sandworm etc prepare you for... some massive finale, hopefully


It all comes back to accessibility, and placing too much value into making things rare via simply not allowing people to participate in content.


I'm looking forward to a second chance for them to say "ok, if you work as hard at the game and are as good at the game as the guy next to you, and aren't a douche that can't get groups, you will have the same opportunities to play the entire game legitimately."

I'm also, as I'm sure tons of other people are and have already said, looking forward to hopefully running into people from FFXI I've lost track of over the years.

[Kaylia]

Was just implying it crossed a point of XIV relation to XI-knowledge dickwaving. Succinctly, we know XI's itemization sucked. RotZ, CoP, ToAU, WotG, or whatever else came about like enchantments or synergy should really hold no weight in XIV outside of passing resemblances with graphical throwbacks. Same with jobs, really.

Can we rightfully be worried about XIV itemization then?

It might be a brand new game with brand new mechanics, but it's the same people behind it, and their logic probably didn't change that much (otherwise, we would have noticed bigger change over the years in ffxi imo).

It all comes back to accessibility, and placing too much value into making things rare via simply not allowing people to participate in content.

This is one huge issue, but I hope that their answer isn't "0.00001% drop rate" either.

[tsaroth816]

Can we rightfully be worried about XIV itemization then?

It might be a brand new game with brand new mechanics, but it's the same people behind it, and their logic probably didn't change that much (otherwise, we would have noticed bigger change over the years in ffxi imo).

This is my biggest fear for FFXIV: it becoming FFXI-2. I and many others have played FFXI to death. I want a completely brand new game. I expect it. Because every FF released always reinvents a new system for battle/world/characters(oh shit, we got same races ._.)etc. The perfect and near perfect reviews for FFXIII is a good sign imo. Don't remember how good FFXII did on reviews, but come on don't lie to yourself, it was Offline-FFXI with a more thought-out macro system, and a main character that if taken out of the game, wouldn't affect the story *at all*. Ashe was my party leader, but I wish I didn't have to stare at Vaan in towns. I still thought FFXII was good/ok, but I think I would have loved it more if I had skipped FFXI.

This is why I believe SE needs to have more open communication/research/whatever. They need to know *right away* that they made a mistake and need to fix it asap, or people will quit. Needs room for future improvements, no more promises of an update in 6 months, then said update adds practically nothing and "new content" is over in 2 hours.

[Plow]

I think I can sum it up pretty nicely:

Usukane full set (particularly on monks) = Yes prz.

Ares full set = lolwtfno.

[arus2001]

Can we rightfully be worried about XIV itemization then?

That's fine, and saying things like Peacock Charm shouldn't come early in the game and being good well into endgame along with shit being the best for 6+ years are valid. How PLDs evolved and going from /WAR to /NIN? Not so much so. Though, that's somewhat of a tangent on Utsusemi being stupid, too.

[Corrderio]

I am hoping that gear will be "slotted" or can be augmented how you like, and you can increase the number of "slots" or augments by completing certain tasks. They could put a limit on the number of max slots or whatever or caps on the extent of augments, but if they did do something like this I hope they TELL YOU what the caps are this time around, instead of making us all test shit and still never know the true answer.

SE wont do this cuz its too sensible.

I do agree a slot system would be nice if SE doesn't half ass it like they did with Evoliths in XI.

As much as I try to avoid FF7 ideas if they made something similar to the materia system where w/e you put in slots can level up to become stronger that would have a lot of potential. Like something that starts out with 0 STR but once fully leveled it'd add +5 STR.

[Lucavi]

That's fine, and saying things like Peacock Charm shouldn't come early in the game and being good well into endgame along with shit being the best for 6+ years are valid. How PLDs evolved and going from /WAR to /NIN? Not so much so. Though, that's somewhat of a tangent on Utsusemi being stupid, too.

Go inbetween WoW and FFXI to find the happy medium. Remember the scarlet monestary gear? How freakin' great it was for that level? Remember the sword of omen? That shit was like getting a mini-peacock charm, except you pretty much got rid of it all by the time you were 45-50, but for the 30 spread, it was hax.

Just do something like that -- make the best gear (for your level) able to hold you for around 7-12 levels and then upgrade. If it's not outright impossible to get, then there's no problem if more than one person is running around with it.

Pcharms and shit in early FF were rare alright - so damned rare that not only did only a few people have them, but those people NEVER got rid of them because they could use them from 30-75 on every DD job they had.... all the way up until now, and then some.

No one would look at a 75 DD in a pcharm and call him gimp, unless they were a fool. Its no longer best in slot at 75, but it's still very very good.

Moral of the story for SE: look at your work, then look at your competitors (the good, successful ones), and then find a comfy little middle-ground.

[Kawfee]

I do agree a slot system would be nice if SE doesn't half ass it like they did with Evoliths in XI.

As much as I try to avoid FF7 ideas if they made something similar to the materia system where w/e you put in slots can level up to become stronger that would have a lot of potential. Like something that starts out with 0 STR but once fully leveled it'd add +5 STR.

I'd like to see something like this. In WOW there is something kind of similar called socketing. e.g., you may have a pair of gloves with 2 sockets on it. You can put a huge variety of gems into the sockets, that can affect pretty much any stat in the game (acc/haste/str/vit/defense/attack/macc/racc/etc), with stats/quality of the gem depending on the level (player crafted) or sometimes dropped from NM/HNM. Adds a whole nother dimension to itemization and the economy, it's pretty fun to play around with.

[Alderaan]

I'd like to see something like this. In WOW there is something kind of similar called socketing. e.g., you may have a pair of gloves with 2 sockets on it. You can put a huge variety of gems into the sockets, that can affect pretty much any stat in the game (acc/haste/str/vit/defense/attack/macc/racc/etc), with stats/quality of the gem depending on the level (player crafted) or sometimes dropped from NM/HNM. Adds a whole nother dimension to itemization and the economy, it's pretty fun to play around with.

Same exact thing in Aion and i love it mostly. Where it gets annoying is the top end gear with 6 slots that you have to gem, with a 25% chance to break and lose all gems. Not sure how it works in WoW, but it drove me crazy breaking a gem on the 6th slot and losing all 5 previous gems.

[Kawfee]

Same exact thing in Aion and i love it mostly. Where it gets annoying is the top end gear with 6 slots that you have to gem, with a 25% chance to break and lose all gems. Not sure how it works in WoW, but it drove me crazy breaking a gem on the 6th slot and losing all 5 previous gems.

In WOW you don't have a chance to fail when you socket a gem, and the gems are unrelated to each other in any sense like that. However, once you socket a gem, you cannot remove it (thought you can overwrite it, in which case you lose it - but that's not really a big deal, as it helps drive the gemcrafting economy).

[Lucavi]

No chance of breaking in WoW - socket it and move on to the next fight. WoW rarely puts in time-sinks like "failure rates" and whatnot. It seems the devs would rather you spend time actually doing fun things (or whatever you view as fun) rather than worrying about what direction to face, moon logistics and crit failure rates for crafts and whatnot.

Granted, the fun part is subjective, but I know it's certainly a relief only having to worry about how to get the money to afford something and the availability of said something in the marketplace or the server altogether.

[Warudo Ecksu]

The failure rate for putting manastones into gear in Aion is retarded. There have been days where I spent millions just trying to put 4 little ol' stones in one piece of gear, after which I angrily logged out of game and threw things at the wall. While having some sort of system to add personal stats to gear is a good idea, augments/stones/gems/enchantments/etc, giving things like this a chance to fail is just a gigantic waste of time and money. Or to be more specific, Aion's system of losing all previously successful stones upon one unsuccessful is a terrible idea that should never, ever be copied by another MMO. I suppose a failure rate wouldn't be that terrible if it wasn't such a punishment as it is in Aion.

[Plow]

The failure rate for putting manastones into gear in Aion is retarded. There have been days where I spent millions just trying to put 4 little ol' stones in one piece of gear, after which I angrily logged out of game and threw things at the wall. While having some sort of system to add personal stats to gear is a good idea, augments/stones/gems/enchantments/etc, giving things like this a chance to fail is just a gigantic waste of time and money. Or to be more specific, Aion's system of losing all previously successful stones upon one unsuccessful is a terrible idea that should never, ever be copied by another MMO. I suppose a failure rate wouldn't be that terrible if it wasn't such a punishment as it is in Aion.

I dunno if you've played any/many "free" mmo's, but pretty much all of the best ones I've played had some sort of system like that for upgrading pretty much anything, and they all rely on cash shop items to lower (but never eliminate) the failure rates.

It's insane what people pay in those games, too. You see people just stand in one spot for 10 minutes and burn $100-200 bucks on a single weapon when they're not even at level cap. Let alone for the things they put in like special mounts that are super rare drops from cash shop "surprise boxes" and crap.

Pretty much turned every good free mmo I've played to trash. And it's particularly depressing because the 2 best I've played by miles, I played in beta and they were absolutely amazing games, then it went "live" which basically means the cash shop opened, and everything went completely to shit as a direct result of said upgrade/fail/break mechanics.

[Warudo Ecksu]

That sounds even worse

[Kawfee]

I dunno if you've played any/many "free" mmo's, but pretty much all of the best ones I've played had some sort of system like that for upgrading pretty much anything, and they all rely on cash shop items to lower (but never eliminate) the failure rates.

It's insane what people pay in those games, too. You see people just stand in one spot for 10 minutes and burn $100-200 bucks on a single weapon when they're not even at level cap. Let alone for the things they put in like special mounts that are super rare drops from cash shop "surprise boxes" and crap.

Pretty much turned every good free mmo I've played to trash. And it's particularly depressing because the 2 best I've played by miles, I played in beta and they were absolutely amazing games, then it went "live" which basically means the cash shop opened, and everything went completely to shit as a direct result of said upgrade/fail/break mechanics.

Did you expect to continue playing for free and have them donate the operation costs to you because they just love bringing games to the masses?

Sarcasm switch set to off, I agree, that sounds pretty shitty, and why you should avoid free-to-play but pay-to-enjoy business model games.

[Lucavi]

I dunno if you've played any/many "free" mmo's, but pretty much all of the best ones I've played had some sort of system like that for upgrading pretty much anything, and they all rely on cash shop items to lower (but never eliminate) the failure rates.

It's insane what people pay in those games, too. You see people just stand in one spot for 10 minutes and burn $100-200 bucks on a single weapon when they're not even at level cap. Let alone for the things they put in like special mounts that are super rare drops from cash shop "surprise boxes" and crap.

Pretty much turned every good free mmo I've played to trash. And it's particularly depressing because the 2 best I've played by miles, I played in beta and they were absolutely amazing games, then it went "live" which basically means the cash shop opened, and everything went completely to shit as a direct result of said upgrade/fail/break mechanics.

I used to play Trickster when it was cash shop-free and loved it, but yeah, once the shop came around, I turned tail and ran. Its bad enough being nickeled and dimed, but when they start doing it just to keep simple things... -simple-, like not having to grind for a week straight just to hit level 90 of about 600... yeah. No more for me.

I'd suppose that you pay for a convenience factor in these $15 a month MMOs, but then Aion just comes out of nowhere and starts instituting FTP MMO features in a paid MMO, which is just absurd for someone not of Korean descent.

[Kaylia]

I'd like to see something like this. In WOW there is something kind of similar called socketing. e.g., you may have a pair of gloves with 2 sockets on it. You can put a huge variety of gems into the sockets, that can affect pretty much any stat in the game (acc/haste/str/vit/defense/attack/macc/racc/etc), with stats/quality of the gem depending on the level (player crafted) or sometimes dropped from NM/HNM. Adds a whole nother dimension to itemization and the economy, it's pretty fun to play around with.

That's one of the biggest issue I have with the augment system (and evolith). Instead of using it to open a new gameplay dimension like merit did long time ago, it simply offers a few sidegrades to existing gears. Basically, it's no different than any other "events" where you get 2 or 3 pieces of gears, and ignore the rest.


This new system doesn't have to be overpowered. Easy NM could drop +1str gem, bigger one drop a rarer "+2str gem" that can only be used in weapon, and you have a new incredibly popular events that everyone (who want to see progression) will enjoy and barely affect the rest of the game.

I have the feeling that's what they wanted to do at first, but because it involved a change in the UI (description label), and database (unless they want the scrap the crafter's signature completely), they went for the current system instead.

[Delirium]

Spoiler: show

Go inbetween WoW and FFXI to find the happy medium. Remember the scarlet monestary gear? How freakin' great it was for that level? Remember the sword of omen? That shit was like getting a mini-peacock charm, except you pretty much got rid of it all by the time you were 45-50, but for the 30 spread, it was hax.

Just do something like that -- make the best gear (for your level) able to hold you for around 7-12 levels and then upgrade. If it's not outright impossible to get, then there's no problem if more than one person is running around with it.

Pcharms and shit in early FF were rare alright - so damned rare that not only did only a few people have them, but those people NEVER got rid of them because they could use them from 30-75 on every DD job they had.... all the way up until now, and then some.

No one would look at a 75 DD in a pcharm and call him gimp, unless they were a fool. Its no longer best in slot at 75, but it's still very very good.

Moral of the story for SE: look at your work, then look at your competitors (the good, successful ones), and then find a comfy little middle-ground.

I kind of agree with you. It is silly that some low level gear is good for a LONG time such as PCC. That being said, every time a new dungeon or something comes out in WoW it makes everything before it outdated. I honestly can't think of a way, off hand, to find a happy balance of the two but then I'm not paid to find one either ;p

[nekoshoonen]

I'm looking forward to play a mmo that isn't solo. Everything else except ff11 you had no incentives to group up at least before endgame (which i never got to because i got bored). Solo play should exist but it should not be the prefered method of play. If i wanted to play by myself i would get a console rpg. I'm also looking forward to fourteen so i can play with some old friends and make new friends. I quit eleven because i was too addicted not because the game failed me in any way.

[Destinye]

ff11 you had no incentives to group up at least before endgame (which i never got to because i got bored).

So you had no friends?