Rules of Love (A No Right Answer Thread!)

[Serra]

Oh and wanted to comment the living together situation. I did it, and I know people who didn't do it. I don't think it's necessary. For some people living together may greatly prolong the wedding date because their stuck paying bills because they got an apt together, whereas they could have been saving for a few months before their wedding if they stayed at home.

Wouldn't living together save money actually? Instead of paying for 2 rents/utilities, just pay for 1 place~

[Deftscythe]

Not if they're living with their parents still.

[Caiti]

Echoing what Sath said, obviously.

As for this,

- If you are married, or are currently or have been engaged, what do you feel are the wrong reasons for entering into such an arrangement? And the right reasons?

I wanted to comment on specifically. Having worked in many salons and atmospheres where it is pretty much all girls, I've noticed that a shitload of girls want to get married just for the actual wedding, the planning, and of course, the ring. A wedding is seen as this Barbie Doll fantasy. While some do have a realistic view of what a marriage entails, there are a lot of girls who have no fucking clue what they are getting into outside of spending a lot of money on their "special day". Getting married isn't going to save your shitty relationship. What's worse is that a year down the road after the honeymoon syndrome has worn off these girls go off and fuck someone else.

[Tyche]

Wedding planning fucking sucks. I think my wife would echo my sentiments. The wedding itself wasn't anywhere near worth the investment either.

[Lurking Badger]

First, marriage is a dated system that comes from an age where women were merchandise that passed from father to suitor in an agreement of trade. There are customs to the courtship that many think are romantic, but I feel it has no serious place in modern society. Talk to any married couple - was their union a day of roses and magic or a day of stress and organizing practicalities? If you have to get married: make it as small and personal as possible, for your own sake. You are fulfilling your and her wishes, not your families.

- Do you feel love is something that comes from an absence in yourself, or insecurity? That people love in order to fulfill something that is perceived to be missing internally?

Many of you have been saying that this perspective is pubertile. If it was placed in a black and white scale, this would be black on the spectrum. White would be admiring someone fully and sacrificing anything for that one. As anything else is the world, things aren't black or white. I have friends that said "she is so good in every way, why don't I love her?".
It is necessary in a longlasting relationship that your partner makes you feel good about yourself. May it be fullfilling a need of protecting someone, or being able to have a stimulating intelligent discussion - that certain someone makes you feel special, and it is not entirely that person's merit, or your own. It's about person chemistry. I don't believe in a "one true love", I believe many people can fit this role. But if you fool youself and just settle for something that feels like "cool, someone likes me". If there are doubts, you don't want to carry them into a long term relationship.

Creating a relationship that is built to last revolves a lot around the everday routine, in my opinion. Does she like slacking in front of the TV when she's home from work, does she like meeting friends, does she like going out every weekend, does she like playing board games, will she tolerate my level of tidiness in the home, if we dont listen to the same music can she stand mine/ I her's, does she like sleeping close to me or apart from me, will we be able to share household chores, will we eat things we both like and at times we both want and where we want (TV/desk/table).

Then, for a longlasting relationship you also need to resolve life relevant questions:

- Do you want to live in town or in the countryside?

- What places can you imagine living in / hate living in?

- Do you want children?

- Do you want to get married?

The best test to a relationship is hard times. If you can have a big argument or suffer an accident or just experience something generally shitty and survive, yea it can probably survive lots more.

[isladar]

Just to answer:

I'm also somewhat surprised at the number of people who seem to think that the OPs friend is automatically fucked. It's a situation where the girl left the guy because she felt like she needed to see more before settling down. That sort of a decision is completely atypical of a needy person (which is what I think most posters have in mind when doomsaying, i.e. an engagement made because the girl is needy.)

Either way, more details about the couple's relationship before the break up are crucial to a good judgment call.

Also, what they did while they were apart (did they date other people or travel?) and how long their separation lasted are somewhat important too.

It's a power play. A direct inference can be made, based on the info given, showing that the guy is at the very least a bit overly attached over co-dependent. A "short break" gives the girl the ultimate power in the relationship because the guy feels like if he ever does anything wrong or makes her unhappy she'll leave.

Sath pretty much called it out exactly. The "I need time apart" was (to my observation) a poor grab for control, a means of ensuring his complete attention. He would receive the silent treatment when he attempted to talk to her, but when he refrained from speaking for a day or so she would go the "You don't care about me" route.

There was another similar lengthy argument between myself and my friend during this time period, as I immediately advised him to end the relationship. If she really just needed time to think, she would have been more than understanding, and willing, to try to reopen negotiations after figuring out where her head was.

The separation was to my knowledge relatively brief, in terms of weeks, not months.

To address what was brought up about fixing a date with the engagement: I used 'date' insofar as that is a very concrete, public indication of intent. Speaking with a woman's father is rather like this. It was not saying that invitations have to be mailed out after four and a half days' time. Simply that, again, don't fucking ask someone to marry you if 'marriage' is still a abstract, sometime-later idea. Things like "when I finish college and you get the car paid down" aren't abstract, those are appreciable measurements.

[isladar]

Getting married isn't going to save your shitty relationship. What's worse is that a year down the road after the honeymoon syndrome has worn off these girls go off and fuck someone else.

This, honestly, is what most disturbs me about the situation. No relationship is always going to be like the first six weeks. Or six months, even. Using proposal to kick back to that initial rush of infatuation seems inherently flawed. People seem addicted to the euphoria, and rather than accepting that maintaining a relationship is, as Tyche said, work, they flail their arms around and say MARRY ME, THIS'LL TOTALLY WORK.

[Tyche]

After my wife and I were engaged, we broke it off and got out all of our indiscretions over the course of a few months. We some how ultimately got back together and finished what we started. It's worked out fine. It was probably for the best so we could at least get a bite of what we had missed by staying together since we were 16/15. I think it helped us find out what we really wanted.

[Ksandra]

Wouldn't living together save money actually? Instead of paying for 2 rents/utilities, just pay for 1 place~

Not if they're living with their parents still.

^ that's why I said "some people". If you're paying two rents then yes financially living together is better (which was what happened to me," but I've come to find a lot (not all) single people under say 28 years old (which is a common get married age, at least with my friends...I'm the last to get married! ;_; ), tend to still live at home, so it wouldn't be a good idea financially.

[Linliel]

I've been with my bf for 12 years, and we're not planning on getting married, basically "if it ain't broke don't fix it". The countries we're interested in living in recognise de facto relationships and we're both successful enough to be able to stand on our own feet in terms of visas, and other paperwork, etc. so that sort of thing doesn't really matter.

We went through a lot of the "what is love" stuff together, and now we've sorted everything out we're nice and relaxed and confident in both ourselves and each other -- I think though we're a particularly odd couple though.

Anyway as to Isladar's questions, I think that rushing into anything in order to play to someone else's insecurities is a really dumb idea. You need to be comfortable in yourself before you can really be comfortable with someone else, imo.

Good luck to your friend Isladar!

[willriker]

I think the bottom line is that when your relationship is ready for marraige, you already act like a married couple. The love is already there. There really isnt a question about it. The act of marraige is the proclamation to god, and your community, of what already exists.

to further elaborate, all those discussions about kids, work, and everything else is required to be able to develope your relationship enough to where your relationship is ready for mairrage. The poster above me says it best. They arent married, but live like they are. And they are perfectly happy. The only thing is that a slip of paper does not make you married to someone, its just a plaque on the wall really. Reaching that point in the relationship where you know that you should be together is what marraige is like.

Anything else just seems like the relationship isnt ready to proclaim the love that you have for each other to everyone... yet.

[Brill Weave]

Seriously if you're that concerned just fuck him, take a picture of it, send it to his girlfriend. Problem solved.

[Colenzo]

anybody wanna get married? I think im ready

[Mizango]

r u tight?

[Linliel]

Miz you already have a waiting list for your harem!

[Mizango]

lol

[isladar]

anybody wanna get married? I think im ready

You've asked me like three times already

[Mizango]

Isladar and I are next in line to walk that isle, sorry Colenzlol. I pledge unfaltering allegiance to mein Führer.

[BerenTebogo]

Isladar and I are next in line to walk that isle, sorry Colenzlol. I pledge unfaltering allegiance to mein Führer.

Nah, me and Caiti are goin' mormon on that ass.

[isladar]

Boys, boys, please.. oh no, don't fight.. Miz put your shit back on.. Sath.. no okay I'll be right here.