Using account recovery on an account that you sold

[Mojo]

I'd like to respond to some of the things said, although Imma probably have to wait until the weekend. School ¬_¬

[Valisk]

If you really wanna know more about how to get away with it and whom to target contact www.volumels.com . They are pros at it.

annnnnnnnd... lock approaching.

[ZhiGaruda]

If you really wanna know more about how to get away with it and whom to target contact www.volumels.com . They are pros at it.

You may as well have just posted this:

Hi guys my name is Electro, I applied to Volume LS and got denied. Now I can't do kings because they bot claim EVERYTHING and this game is dead anyways. I'd rather be playin' with my chicks tits down at the club anyways, I don't even care.

[The_OG_Nelta]

haha.

Point of the matter is that it happens all the time, can't really do anything to stop it.

[Valisk]

haha.

Point of the matter is that it happens all the time, can't really do anything to stop it.

I think the point of this thread was awareness not prevention.

[Ksandra]

You may as well have just posted this:

Hi guys my name is Electro, I applied to Volume LS and got denied. Now I can't do kings because they bot claim EVERYTHING and this game is dead anyways. I'd rather be playin' with my chicks tits down at the club anyways, I don't even care.

shut up starr....oh wait

[Mojo]

stuff

People would care if it was suddenly turned off, so that's a stupid thing to say. Just because FFXI (or anything else that resides within a computer) isn't a tangible object that we can reach out and touch doesn't mean that it's not connected to people in a similar way that everything else we fill our lives is.

Your second paragraph is completely devoid of any logic, it's just more garbage. It's also somewhat ironic that you're implying people who played the game for enjoyment would care if the game vanished immediately after stating that the world wouldn't care if it did.

Any sort of declaration on how the game is closed based on the ToS is unrealistic, wishful thinking. Even without RMT, people with jobs are able to invest less of their time into the game, so it already transcends that border. Also, if you're assigning causality of "The Great Inflation" on RMT, then you know nothing about the history of this game. There were very specific reasons as to why that happened. RMT certainly exacerbated the situation but it would have occurred regardless.

[bungiefan]

Doesn't seem like a very smart thing to do. Since your RL name and birthday are permanently attached to the account. Not that hard to track someone down with that information. Sure most people not likely to do anything, but theres always that small chance you stole from the wrong person and they go all Jack Bauer on you.

Not always so. Those of us following the FFXIOnline.com account setup guide for importers used a fake name, and I had to use a fake birthday since I wasn't 20 yet when I made my account (You can't make a JP account without claiming to be 20 or older, as that is their age of majority). I did take screenshots of the information though so I can verify the info if I have to call customer service, or have someone call on my behalf that can speak Japanese enough to handle a customer service call.

[Fottiti]

Selling accout his lame, buying account is lame, stealing it back is just wrong.


I disagree with account buying/selling practice, but aside the fact that SE tell you not to do it, it's pretty much how our society works. You sold your time, you bought someone else time, and that's it. Stealing back your account is scamming someone for 2-3k money, after making a deal with him. That's just low no matter how I spin it around.

Its definitely not a nice thing to do and it certainly isn't 'morally' justifiable. Its the fact that you will never meet the person, its not like you stole money out your mom's handbag then lied to her face (or some other similar scenario). The act itself is also completely devoid of human contact/emotion. These things make it far easier for somebody to do it, yes the outcome is still the same but it is still a big factor.

[Iremire]

If you really wanna know more about how to get away with it and whom to target contact www.volumels.com . They are pros at it.

Yep, I sold all the account buyer's their accounts and am recalling them as we speak. I graduated college with a degree in stealing gil and recalling accounts double major.

[Spider-Dan]

How many times do I gotta tell ya, you can't buy an FF account under good faith and then lay any claim over it because it was never the seller's to begin with?

I suppose you would use this exact same logic if someone hacked the account that you pay for each month? "Oh well, it was technically never mine anyway, no harm no foul!"

You're hiding behind EULA. If your argument is seriously that there is no actual legal crime being committed, then welcome to page 1, we all already agree that Squenix owns the servers and can legally deactivate or transfer any account to anyone they like for any reason or no reason at all.

Now ask: Would you have a case if someone stole your online persona?

You mean like when someone hacked into Sarah Palin's personal (<- this part is important) e-mail account and was charged with a federal felony? My guess would be yes.

But again, you're skirting the issue. The issue is not whether or not someone can be arrested or sued; I simply asked to what degree it is perceived as wrong by the community at large.

Since it is impossible for the original seller to "regain" the account due to who actually owns it, this line of discussion isn't going anywhere. As I said, you need to stop thinking of account owners as players. The only owner is SE and that breaks so many of those analogies and legal protections.

If you cannot wrap your mind around the ethical concept of possessing an online account (that may legally belong to someone else), then perhaps you shouldn't make any analogies to physical items at all.

The bottom line is that regardless of the legal details, in practice you have agreed to sell an item to another person and you have violated the spirit of that agreement by recalling the account (at which point you can sell it again). If you want to hide behind the "it was never really yours to begin with," then fine; maybe you can go find an iPhone forum and tell them how there's nothing wrong with Apple bricking modified iPhones because you never actually owned the OS to begin with.

[FailureMidgard]

If you really wanna know more about how to get away with it and whom to target contact www.volumels.com . They are pros at it.

Huh? WTF are you smoking. Two individuals that are no longer with us did do some shady stuff like that...it's almost like nobody here wanted them here though. We have virtually no bought or stolen accounts in the shell atm (to my knowledge, that number is actually 0, but I make no claims at omniscience).

[Electro]

You may as well have just posted this:

Hi guys my name is Electro, I applied to Volume LS and got denied. Now I can't do kings because they bot claim EVERYTHING and this game is dead anyways. I'd rather be playin' with my chicks tits down at the club anyways, I don't even care.

To be fair; I never applied as I don't have time for kings anymore. I stopped doing kings about a year ago for this reason. But nice try I really did appreciate it.

Also it was not any intent to flame Ire or anyone; I find it funny that I know a few people who do it so often and I begin to feel a little sorry for those poor mindless people who actually have it happen to them lol. Gotta suck really bad.

[Thiefami]

Recently, I found out that a longtime in-game friend of mine used account recovery on their account, which they had sold. Apparently, this practice is not uncommon.

Is this a widespread phenomenon? IMHO, this is pretty much the single lowest thing that a person can do in this game.

Worse than ninjalot.
Worse than botting.
Worse than Mastercarding yourself a Ghorn.
Worse than stealing an LS bank.
Worse than hacking someone else's account.

I'm talking complete and utter moral bankruptcy. I can't think of anything worse that one could do in this game.

Is my opinion extreme? Do others casually accept this practice these days?

I know there will always be an element of "serves you right for buying an account," but seriously, is this where we're at? This is the kind of sh*t that deserves to be prosecuted IRL, in my opinion.

Most people will use whatever excuse necessary to justify inappropriate action and behavior. We all know its wrong. If people can justify it by saying "they shouldn't have bought an account" then you can also say you should have never sold your account. It is stealing money and I think it should be grounds for prosecution irl as well.

[Electro]

Most people will use whatever excuse necessary to justify inappropriate action and behavior. We all know its wrong. If people can justify it by saying "they shouldn't have bought an account" then you can also say you should have never sold your account. It is stealing money and I think it should be grounds for prosecution irl as well.

It can be if the person used a stolen paypal account which has happened before.

[Antithesis]

Honestly, the best part of this thread is the people arguing over semantics. It's fucking hilarious. Beyond the "recalling of the account once you sold it" thing , people need to get off their fucking high horses already with RMT and botting.

[BunkMonk]

The act itself is also completely devoid of human contact/emotion. These things make it far easier for somebody to do it, yes the outcome is still the same but it is still a big factor.

This is also why people feel like they can be complete assholes in a forum/ game/any anonymous situation when they're probably a little bitch in real life.

Not at all directed at you, Fottiti, just saying. :3

[Wrish]

I suppose you would use this exact same logic if someone hacked the account that you pay for each month? "Oh well, it was technically never mine anyway, no harm no foul!"

You're hiding behind EULA. If your argument is seriously that there is no actual legal crime being committed...

You mean like when someone hacked into Sarah Palin's personal (<- this part is important) e-mail account and was charged with a federal felony?

Hacking is different. The legal aspect is intentional, unauthorized access of a secured system. Nothing material needs to have been lost. Often the challenge is locating the hacker; conversely, it's more dangerous to hack into a high profile target. Hacking usually starts under state law, but since Palin's case traversed state lines, it automatically became federal.

Without a legal case, there's still redress from the provider - the owner of the servers hosting the account - in FF cases, a PW reset and usually complete rollback to the pre-hack state.

"Selling" an account involves revealing your password, and "recalling" it involves producing proof of original registration. Neither sounds like hacking... it would be a stretch to apply this logic, primarily because the owner and provider of the accounts has a say in who is authorized access.

But again, you're skirting the issue. The issue is not whether or not someone can be arrested or sued; I simply asked to what degree it is perceived as wrong by the community at large.

You've got to be very clear whether you talk of laws or morals. They can be diametrically opposed for very good reasons, yet I see you flitting between them in a paragraph's discussion, when you back up a moral argument with (often invalid) legal threats.

The FF community at large doesn't condone 3rd-party tools, account jacking, and RMT. Vocal posters at BG are a variant subset that condones some of those activities... in the end, what's a relevant demographic to base moral judgment on? With such a limited population here we are just arguing over individual variances in opinion.

If you cannot wrap your mind around the ethical concept of possessing an online account (that may legally belong to someone else), then perhaps you shouldn't make any analogies to physical items at all.

Oh, it's not me making the analogies! I think you mean possessing access to an account. This ethical concept of raw account ownership partly disintegrates when SE unilaterally shuts down an account.

The bottom line is that regardless of the legal details, in practice you have agreed to sell an item to another person and you have violated the spirit of that agreement by recalling the account.

Certainly I understand what you're talking about; it's just weird to pretend the stranger making this black market deal with you, a stranger you'll probably never meet or physically track down, will invariably make this gentleman's agreement. Isn't one of the cardinal rules of black market trade that you transact face-to-face?

Oh, and one summer you invite 6 friends over to your house. Due to a lack of space, they start buying and selling rights as to who gets to sit where. Makes you think, huh?

Honestly, the best part of this thread is the people arguing over semantics. It's fucking hilarious. Beyond the "recalling of the account once you sold it" thing , people need to get off their fucking high horses already with RMT and botting.

And you get off your effin' high horse about account recalls!

[Antithesis]

And you get off your effin' high horse about account recalls!

Honestly, the best part of this thread is the people arguing over semantics. It's fucking hilarious. Beyond the "recalling of the account once you sold it" thing , people need to get off their fucking high horses already with RMT and botting.

Try again.

[Khamsin]

I know this is going to be a common response, but do you not have a problem with the it's-OK-if-you're-already-elite double standard, where those who sell gil/accounts are savvy entrepreneurs but those who buy gil/accounts are pathetic losers to be mocked and shunned? They're both equally RMT.

Both are RMT, but it's less about that and more to do with the fact that someone comes out ahead. The ones who come out ahead are savvy entrepreneurs and the ones who come out behind are pathetic losers to be mocked and shunned. Welcome to capitalism.

If I sell someone the Brooklyn Bridge, I'm a savvy entrepreneur, and the poor sap who bought it is a pathetic loser. Case closed.