Astral Burn Enmity

[Wrish]

I never rest with holder, and never have any issues with hate.

Also, having smns pull hasn't caused any problems either.

I'm interested in knowing more details of this exact technique because right now I require a fast computer not to freeze up in the healing position. It would be so convenient if I could remain standing and just use spells to hold hate. What types of spells are you casting and how many?

[Kaeko]

You can't stand too far back or no exp, hate will still change if mobs hit for above 0 so you need person holding log to be careful to keep ss up. I'm sure you already knew that though, just a bunch of extra effort.

I think the range on not getting exp is fairly large. It's definitely larger than 50'. I remember this from leeching at pudding camp. You don't have to see the mob to get exp, so ~30-35' is very safe on EXP gain.

I think there are a lot of little things each group does for AFburns, but the actual mechanics of it are still pretty unknown in some regards. I'd really like to know just wtf is going on with /sit and /heal commands.

[rog]

If you really -never- rest with holder, after AF your mobs will kill the avatar and then depop as nobody has any hate on them

Uh, except transferring mobs from pullers to holder gives the holder hate. Whether by having the holder rest, or pullers rest and then cure them for hate, the holder will always have hate on everything.

You can't stand too far back or no exp, hate will still change if mobs hit for above 0 so you need person holding log to be careful to keep ss up. I'm sure you already knew that though, just a bunch of extra effort.

Uh, you need to be what? 50'+ away to not get hate? lol. SS lasts 15 mins, np.

it's not no benefit, it's situational benefit.. you say your puller isn't resting, which means you're getting hate some other way.. say they slack off a bit and your smn dies, you just lost a big chunk of time or exp.. on top of that, puller getting hate on a gigas takes less time from both a ingame time perspective and person's keypresses perspective than having people run 25' away

I don't know what you're doing differently, but i've never had to have the holder do anything to keep hate. I get hate off the pullers when they bring mobs to me, and otherwise all i do is cast phalanx/ss. During the burn, i don't so much as look at the window of the holder.

wat. You should be resting, not running around like an idiot. We usually just had the puller spam bar spells, but I can see how a CFH mob makes things easier.

Also, don't say Hi-Ethers.

1) af
2) run back 26'
3) rest
4) stop resting
5) summon
6) run towards mobs
7) ???
8) profit!

[rog]

I'm interested in knowing more details of this exact technique because right now I require a fast computer not to freeze up in the healing position. It would be so convenient if I could remain standing and just use spells to hold hate. What types of spells are you casting and how many?

If you use windowed mode, shake the window around, and you will stand up.

[cosworthrs]

The best way

1) have a few rdm mules to 2box
2) rdm - refresh buffs, spam blind/dispel/bind/blah blah on CFH mob, then run through the barspell list then you MUST /heal to make the burn 100% the best it can be
3) smns stand right on puller(this will remove possibility of depops) - summon, bp, heal, rinse repeat
4) congrats on 20~50k exp depending on amount of pullers and sync level.

I have seen where you need to run away from mobs to /heal, this is not needed. Your goal is to time your BP's so the mobs do not get scattered.
The closer the BP's the more the hate gets messed up and mobs will start to run around and depop. You can easily achieve chain #100++ as long as you understand how to BP. The timer for BP's is 1 minute(3 ticks on HMP is good if using ps2/360), you have 4 summoners, a leech and a sync - every 15 seconds a BP is going off and no mobs will depop.

As for level 10 sync, you will need 5 summoners(2hours ready) to get 10~24 in one pull. It is possible, but as stated before you need to time your BP's 15 seconds apart, not a second later, not a second earlier.

cadence for astral flow is
lvl 10 = 5
lvl 12 = 4
lvl 14 = 3
lvl 16 = 2
lvl 17-18 = 1
lvl 19 = no need as you have thunderspark


The ways that it go can go wrong -

Summoners do not know that you can get 3 BP's per astral flow(sad but true)

Back up puller goes to main to leech before cor rolls are done(remember hate from rolls on puller = everyone dies)

People BP too close together making mobs depop.

Rdm puller lags out while resting and dies.

Someone thinks they are cute and diaga's part of your pull.

[rog]

Anywhere from 15~25 seconds is fine. Timing on bp doesn't cause depops. The point of timing bps, is to keep chain, nothing else.

Also, 3 smns works fine at 12, or even 11 if the sync has an exp ring. With anni ring, and emp, can do lvl 10 with 3 smn.

[Necronus]

totally a better idea than spending 45 seconds getting a cfh mob


This only works if the pullers zoning aren't rest aggroing things, else when the guy holding mobs rests to get on their mobs' hate list, they'll change targets enough you can't reliably keep hate on the person zoning to true reset. On top of that, you're adding like 40% time per pull..

For us, our people run around on PLD, RDM, whatever to get pulls and go back to a central RDM holder. When they arrive at the central RDM they drop all buffs and let their HP drop .... the RDM cure bombs them and steals/solidifies hate, then goes back to sitting in the pile/ barspelling. The puller then heads to town and comes back as whatever we need SMN/Snyc/or just a Leech.

But the point you are right about is that people changing jobs and returning does make the pulls notably longer. But the benefits of pullers being in party outweighs that for the pullers obviously.

[ikariiiii]

what kaeko said about being 35' away brings up a question- if you do summon too close to the mobs, would the possibility of them depopping occur because of the action? i've been completely turned off by smn burning just because the last two runs i did we had the mobs depop on us after getting to camp, right as we start the astral cycle

[rog]

what kaeko said about being 35' away brings up a question- if you do summon too close to the mobs, would the possibility of them depopping occur because of the action? i've been completely turned off by smn burning just because the last two runs i did we had the mobs depop on us after getting to camp, right as we start the astral cycle

No. Mobs depop if no one has any hate on them. The only way for that to happen is if you have a single puller, who didn't rest at all. And of course that should never happen, because single puller astral burns are a waste of time.

[urat]

The big things in AFburns that eff things up, from personal experience:

#1 some douche diagas the batch and kills exp. I HATE that >_>

#2 Mobs dont have hate on anything and are just linked, when the CFH dies they all depop because what hate they built up on the avatar just got demolished.

#3 The holder didnt spam /rest and etc and when the smn uses an AF it gains enough hate before the avi can actually execute it, the mobs attack and kill the smn before the AF goes off. This is the worst.

#4 A summoner rests/items/summons too close to the mobs and pulls hate and gets face raped. This is ten times worse if they're the level synch too D:

From what I've done, which is about 10 burns now, what the group does is simple.

Holder stands in room at ready, and all 6 summoners get on pulling jobs and pull their monsters too the main room. The holder then spends 5 mins or so generating enough hate on us to get the monsters off of us. Then we all run and zone out, swap to smn, and come back.

Holder leaves party, level synch takes his place, we level synch and stand safe distance away down hallway.

We take turns summoning outside of room then running in and astral flowing the group of mobs. Viola

[Anomander]

Here's how smn burn works:

If the pullers are swapping back to smn, they need to not rest to aggro anything. Otherwise, after dumping the mobs on the holder, they will still be on the hate list. Once the holder acquires them, the pullers will not lose this enmity from zoning. You only lose hate upon a zone if you are at the top of the hate list.

Holder should also /heal to get onto the hate list of all the mobs. It is not necessary to lose hp and get healed if the pullers never pulled anything by /heal.

Using any random mob works fine if the smn's didn't pull earlier using /heal. Otherwise, there is a chance they will build more hate. I have witnessed countless groups wiping due to this. Doing it the way I just described does require the smn's to pull back, but it really isn't any sort of time wasted. It is quite easy to pull back, pop a hi ether, resummon, and get back into position with plenty of time left on rage.

[Fiendishone]

I've pulled as PLD/RDM countless times, with minimal gear (fowling earring is handy). Best way I found to hold hate is after gathering up all mobs, do a /heal, get back up, cure myself, sentinel, then spam the barspells. Nonstop. Till all mobs are dead. Never once has a SMN died.

Easiest way I prefer to grab mobs is to dia 1 bat, link a few, then kill that bat. Same goes for spiders & leeches.

[Anomander]

I've pulled as PLD/RDM countless times, with minimal gear (fowling earring is handy). Best way I found to hold hate is after gathering up all mobs, do a /heal, get back up, cure myself, sentinel, then spam the barspells. Nonstop. Till all mobs are dead. Never once has a SMN died.

Easiest way I prefer to grab mobs is to dia 1 bat, link a few, then kill that bat. Same goes for spiders & leeches.

This is fine as the holder. The holder should always /heal.

[Stellar]

Hmmm... So, does healing put you on the hate list with like.. negative CE or something?

For instance, if you were to /heal aggro a mob and stood up, then someone shot the mob and missed, "tagging" it... wouldn't it go after the ranged attacker... er maybe not. Now I'm doubting myself, but now I'm curious about the specifics of /heal.

(I previously had sort of created this own ideology that there were two lists, an aggro list, then an enmity/hate list. Once someone establishes anything on the enmity/hate list, the aggro list is completely wiped... but this wouldn't work with alliance hate I don't think. Guess I'm still a bit confused!)

[Wrish]

For instance, if you were to /heal aggro a mob and stood up, then someone shot the mob and missed, "tagging" it... wouldn't it go after the ranged attacker... er maybe not.

It would, unless the agro person sits down again.

I previously had sort of created this own ideology that there were two lists, an aggro list, then an enmity/hate list. Once someone establishes anything on the enmity/hate list, the aggro list is completely wiped... but this wouldn't work with alliance hate I don't think. Guess I'm still a bit confused!

The "aggro" list for a regular mob can only contain one player, so I just think of it as "current target," which once a hate list starts is fixed to members of that hate list.

If you /heal in party and are detected by a mob with a hate list, I believe you're placed on the actual hate list, though. If you start casting self buffs fast enough you start the glue the mob onto you.

Alliance agro mobs are unique and I don't think we have hate-list testing on those.

[Taint]

I hold for SMNburns all the time (RDM). Recently I stopped /healing at all. We have the pullers go to 20' and /heal. I cast Haste, Refresh on them and then spam En2 spells. The mobs generally transfer right after refresh but sometimes it takes an En2 or two. This method seems to hold hate better and there is not threat of lagging while trying to /heal and get up.

[rog]

This method seems to hold hate better and there is not threat of lagging while trying to /heal and get up.

1) play in windowed mode
2) shake window for several seconds
3) ???
4) profit!

[Wrish]

Taint's method is better; it's more reliable. I'm not sure if the windowed mode trick requires unofficial windower or a peculiar system setup. It doesn't seem to work for me. But as soon as I phalanx II that healing-stuck mule, all the mobs turn toward me.

[rog]

Well, i used windower, and can't say for sure if it would work with lolse'swindowedmode, but i don't really see why anyone should care. Just use windower.

[Wrish]

You need to stop advocating 3rd party crap over a simple, elegant workaround that works for everyone. Do you see me telling everyone to get an i7 and gtx class card so they don't lag out healing?