Pandora/Last.fm may be in trouble

[Rhinox]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8507885.stm

Companies like Spotify, We7 and Last.fm give free, legal and instant access to millions of songs, funded by adverts.
Warner, one of the four major labels, whose artists include REM and Michael Buble, said such services were "clearly not positive for the industry".
That raises questions over the future of free streaming, which is popular with fans but not lucrative for labels.
Spotify has seven million users in six European countries and is in negotiations to launch in the US.
Ninety-five per cent of those fans use its free service, hearing adverts between songs, while 250,000 pay a monthly fee to get it on a mobile and with no ads.

[It] is not the kind of approach to business that we will be supporting in the future
Edgar Bronfman Jr, Warner Music
Two-and-a-half million people use We7's free offering, while Last.fm is also free in the US and UK.
Other popular audio services include Deezer, Pandora and Grooveshark.
Warner chief executive Edgar Bronfman Jr said: "Free streaming services are clearly not net positive for the industry and as far as Warner Music is concerned will not be licensed.
"The 'get all your music you want for free, and then maybe with a few bells and whistles we can move you to a premium price' strategy is not the kind of approach to business that we will be supporting in the future."
It is not clear whether Warner will remove its music from existing services or decline to do deals with new outlets.
He said the focus would be on promoting streaming services that require payment, which he said could appeal beyond those who currently pay for downloads in stores such as Apple's iTunes.

Spotify is free with ads, or fans can pay £9.99 a month in the UK
"The number of potential subscribers dwarfs the number of people who are actually purchasing music on iTunes," Mr Bronfman said.
Fans could pay a monthly fee direct to a streaming service, as with Spotify, or get access to the music as part of a deal for a mobile phone, broadband connection or another gadget.
Such subscriptions could be taken up by "hundreds of millions if not billions of people, most of whom are not today either buyers or certainly heavy buyers of music", Mr Bronfman said.
And they would be much more profitable than per-track downloads in the long term, he added.
The main legal streaming services have deals with most major and independent record labels and pay royalties for each song played.
But the amount is far less than a label would earn if that song was downloaded or if they got a slice of a listener's monthly subscription.

It would definitely be a tremendous blow to a service like Spotify if Warner were to withdraw their catalogue from the free service
Paul Brindley, Music Ally
Mr Bronfman's comments come just weeks after another major label, Universal, said Spotify was well on the way to proving its commercial viability.
"Spotify is a very sustainable financial model - full stop," Rob Wells, senior vice president of Universal Music Group International, said in January.
Paul Brindley of digital music consultants Music Ally said the other major labels were unlikely to follow Warners' lead.
"There's a fairly widespread suspicion that free streaming services just aren't ever going to make enough money," he said.
"But it does seem to be that Warner is taking a firmer stand than the other major labels in terms of opposing a free ad-funded model.
"It would be an absolute tragedy if they were to adhere to that to such a degree that in their renegotiations with Spotify, they withdrew their content without even giving them a chance to see how well they could convert their users to the premium version.

The consumer is in a world where they want things right here, right now, and if you don't give it to them they'll steal it
Jon Webster, Music Managers' Forum
"It would definitely be a tremendous blow to a service like Spotify if Warner were to withdraw their catalogue from the free service."
A Spotify spokesman declined to comment.
We7 chief executive Steve Purdham said Warner and the other major labels had always been "consistent in their concerns" about ad-funded and free services.
"But they have also been very supportive of us. I think Edgar's comments are more a reflection that subscription services is currently the key focus for the industry and I strongly support that view, especially in the mobile arenas."
Jon Webster, chief executive of the UK's Music Managers' Forum, which represents artist managers, said the industry must support services that tempt fans away from piracy.
"Anything that's going backwards is denying where the world's going," he said.
"New media has to give the consumer what they want and the consumer is in a world where they want things right here, right now - and if you don't give it to them, they'll steal it.
"There are new business models out there and they are beginning to work and we are in a transition phase."

[Headspace]

Fuck this. I love my unlimited Pandora on my droid.

Fuck the record industry.

[Beckwin]

switch to grooveshark!

[gt_killa]

Wouldn't the same apply for Radio station? We can't really pick which songs we want to hear on radio/pandora, only songs that are in the same "genres"?

[Akiyama]

I love last.fm. D: Fuck the head honchos is it fucks things up.

[Deadgye]

tl;dr version?

[Khamsin]

tl;dr version?

Music industry doesn't like services like Pandora.

(examples used in the article are actually Spotify and last.fm)

[Arnwulf]

I do believe, out of all the services, that Pandora is the one the recording industry "approves" of, but who knows. Those guys are really grasping at straws to try and turn a larger profit.

[sephir]

From a pure business stand point the record industry is one of the worst models for any type of business. The amount of money wasted in those companies is just beyond ridiculous.

[Trichocyst]

I love last.fm. I love checking up periodically on my listening habits. I want it to last until 2016 so I can get a decade of listening in.

[Blabj]

Well, if they stop supporting spotify I'll just have to go back to downloading V0 rips of all their popular artist's albums. Your move, Warner.

[Max™]

I would have expected it to be in trouble because when I sampled Pandora (lasted about 5 seconds) and told it I liked Lady Gaga, it suggested Britney Spears...

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/pandora.png

[Pooky]

From a pure business stand point the record industry is one of the worst models for any type of business.

This.

Record Companies need to realize that this isn't the 80's or 90's anymore, they need to learn how to evolve with technology if they're to survive...even more so now that they aren't needed at all. Artists can record, produce, release, and promote their own music with nothing more than a macbook and the internet these days; the age of needing a contract with a major label is over.

Whenever I see talk of the music industry I always end up linking this. The link is a few years old (from the oink shutdown) but is still a sound commentary on the music industry, piracy ect.

Last.fm is such a good tool, I'd hate to see it go. I've found so many artists I never would have heard of without its recommended/neighbor stations.

[TacoTaru]

Wouldn't the same apply for Radio station? We can't really pick which songs we want to hear on radio/pandora, only songs that are in the same "genres"?

Unless Pandora/Last F.M./etc pays for the rights to play those songs then it's not the same. Radio stations pay for the rights to play music to (I think) two different entities, I'm fairly certain these do not.

[Khamsin]

This.

Record Companies need to realize that this isn't the 80's or 90's anymore, they need to learn how to evolve with technology if they're to survive

Well, things will probably change once the music industry goes bankrupt (unless they get a bailout). But once the industry is dead, and there is no music anymore, new business models will probably pop up and artists will once again start venturing into the world of music-for-profit in a different fashion. Probably focusing more on live concerts and other gigs than relying on album sales. The recorded songs themselves will probably serve mostly as a means to popularize the artist and encourage people to attend the concerts or other events featuring them.

[Pooky]

Well, things will probably change once the music industry goes bankrupt (unless they get a bailout). But once the industry is dead, and there is no music anymore, new business models will probably pop up and artists will once again start venturing into the world of music-for-profit in a different fashion. Probably focusing more on live concerts and other gigs than relying on album sales. The recorded songs themselves will probably serve mostly as a means to popularize the artist and encourage people to attend the concerts or other events featuring them.

The record industry really had nothing to do with the creation of music, artists can (and do) put out albums without major label support. The record industry as it is and has been is all about distribution; with artists being able to record, produce, and then release their art themselves the need for a "old" record contract isn't needed at all. The thought that record labels are required to make new music is a fallacy, there will never be "no new music" unless the artists stop making it. The record industry as it was in the 80's and 90's is dead already they just haven't realized it yet.

From my understanding most artists only make a small portion of revenue from album sales as is, most of their income is off touring and merch sales. New business models are popping up as we speak (take the "In Rainbows" publicity stunt ect) its only a matter of the record companies pulling their heads out of their asses and stop looking to the past for business strategies.

Read that link I posted, there's a lot of good info there.

[Blarg]

I use a site like these (jango.com) but is there really any difference to them, is one outright better than the other. I think I used pandora before they stopped working for canada.

[Beckwin]

use grooveshark, you can pick virtually any song and set your own online playlists, and there's the regular radio kind of function that's on pandora et al.

[Pooky]

use grooveshark, you can pick virtually any song and set your own online playlists, and there's the regular radio kind of function that's on pandora et al.

My biggest problem with grooveshark is that (as far as I know) there's no mobile support. Last.fm and Pandora both have really good apps for iPhone, so i can listen in the car or at work.

[Gwynplaine]

As long as any industry stubbornly refuses to engage digital technology they will suffer. See music and news.