Shadow Mantle Proc Rate

[FailureMidgard]

Still beats all damage mitigation back peices for plds (including boxers). Dont toss it in storage quite yet..

And as I argued with you a year or more ago, Boxer's already beat Shadow Mantle for spell interruption assuming 2skill=1% blockrate, and you weren't capped with the old assumed proc rate.

[Neosutra]

And as I argued with you a year or more ago, Boxer's already beat Shadow Mantle for spell interruption assuming 2skill=1% blockrate, and you weren't capped with the old assumed proc rate.

Hence where I said DAMAGE MITIGATION, and the assumption of 2 skil = 1% block rate is incorrect. More like 3 skill = 1% block rate at best..

[sruon]

Still beats all damage mitigation back peices for plds (including boxers). Dont toss it in storage quite yet..

^ Mantle adds a whole new line of defense to your job, definitly worth keeping.

[Kirschy]

Hence where I said DAMAGE MITIGATION, and the assumption of 2 skil = 1% block rate is incorrect. More like 3 skill = 1% block rate at best..

I am interested if you have any data on skill vs block rate. I have just been using 2skill=~1%, but I would welcome any data. It'll help me decide a bit on M Head vs V Helm, Shadow Mantle vs Boxers, and Askar vs AF1+1. (Most of the time it's an easy choice of course!)

[FailureMidgard]

Hence where I said DAMAGE MITIGATION, and the assumption of 2 skil = 1% block rate is incorrect. More like 3 skill = 1% block rate at best..

We can add this to the eyeballed 9-10% procrate on shadow mantle.
I know you said damage mitigation THIS TIME. Last time you didn't.

[Demosthenes11]

with style

pretty much, think we had that tia under 30% in about 10 minutes before the flail lol

still killed tho ;p

[Neosutra]

I am interested if you have any data on skill vs block rate. I have just been using 2skill=~1%, but I would welcome any data. It'll help me decide a bit on M Head vs V Helm, Shadow Mantle vs Boxers, and Askar vs AF1+1. (Most of the time it's an easy choice of course!)

I go with kaiser over valhalla for head due to minimal difference in damage mitigation and kaiser adding to your chances of getting shadows back up (when /nin ofcourse). Valhalla will offer more damage mitigation when /war or /rdm, but I dont really care for the constant slow% and I beat off every time Aegis blocks..

AF+1 feet detroys askar, askar is for kiting.

Boxers barely beats out shadow mantle ONLY for spell interuption, but pulls more ahead if you are fighting lower level mobs where you can actually parry/evade a bit. Shadow mantle however will offer higher damage mitigation. I chose shadow mantle over boxers for Ichi/Ni recast and for anything hard enough that my parry/evasion skills wont go above the minimum value. Shadow mantle has saved me more times than that extra 1 shield block in 100 would have and rocks even without 10% proc rate.

I use boxers with soloing pld/rdm, macro in emnity/hp for emnity actions and cure swaps, and use shadow mantle for everything else.

Shadow mantle is also omni-directional and not just limited to straight on tanking.

[Kirschy]

Yea mostly what I had been doing (except I use V Head over M Head while /war and /rdm). I was more interested in seeing if you had data to give a rough estimate on Shield+ to Block Rate. I have a good feel for how it works, but there's so little real data, thats it's hard to give a good reason on my choices other than "it feels like the right way to do it."

[FailureMidgard]

I go with kaiser over valhalla for head due to minimal difference in damage mitigation and kaiser adding to your chances of getting shadows back up (when /nin ofcourse). Valhalla will offer more damage mitigation when /war or /rdm, but I dont really care for the constant slow% and I beat off every time Aegis blocks..

AF+1 feet detroys askar, askar is for kiting.

Boxers barely beats out shadow mantle ONLY for spell interuption, but pulls more ahead if you are fighting lower level mobs where you can actually parry/evade a bit. Shadow mantle however will offer higher damage mitigation. I chose shadow mantle over boxers for Ichi/Ni recast and for anything hard enough that my parry/evasion skills wont go above the minimum value. Shadow mantle has saved me more times than that extra 1 shield block in 100 would have and rocks even without 10% proc rate.

I use boxers with soloing pld/rdm, macro in emnity/hp for emnity actions and cure swaps, and use shadow mantle for everything else.

Shadow mantle is also omni-directional and not just limited to straight on tanking.

Ok, so
6 shield skill vs -5% damage taken, or you're giving up 1% pdt for 1.2 shield skill.
10 shield skill vs 6.25% chance for -100% damage taken, or you're giving up 1% pdt for 1.6 shield skill.

But Kaiser Schaller is better because you beat off whenever you block with an Aegis. Got it, I'm glad your choices are well supported by math. I don't understand how you can call it a "minimal difference in damage mitigation" but the flame an item that is even MORE in favor of shield skill on the ratio of what you're giving up.

[Usmrsiberian]

Just a question Failure, do you even have PLD leveled?

[FailureMidgard]

Just a question Failure, do you even have PLD leveled?

Have you even taken basic algebra? Really, I don't care if people don't understand or want to do the math, but it's insanely ignorant to try to deny it. If you'd like to argue with my math, go for it. Slow is -sometimes- a valid reason to not want to idle in a V.Head. Based on Neosutra's own argument, it is NEVER a valid reason to use it in an ohshit macro.

I don't have DRK or WAR at 75 either, would you like to use that to invalidate my ability to tell you how much storeTP is needed for a 6hit build?

[Klutz]

Just a question Failure, do you even have PLD leveled?

Wtf, unless there is some hidden effect on Shadow Mantle that says "PROCS MORE WITH PLD AS MAIN JOB LULZ" any job can test this.

Do you have a mantle at all? Maybe, maybe not. Obvious troll is obvious.

[Neosutra]

Ok, so
6 shield skill vs -5% damage taken, or you're giving up 1% pdt for 1.2 shield skill.
10 shield skill vs 6.25% chance for -100% damage taken, or you're giving up 1% pdt for 1.6 shield skill.

But Kaiser Schaller is better because you beat off whenever you block with an Aegis. Got it, I'm glad your choices are well supported by math. I don't understand how you can call it a "minimal difference in damage mitigation" but the flame an item that is even MORE in favor of shield skill on the ratio of what you're giving up.

The beating off to blocks was a joke. The main reason for kaiser over valhalla is the slow%. Kaiser vs Valhalla isnt the same comparison as Shadow vs Boxers. Dont be so dense and butthurt from the last debate to start flaming this one.

If Valhalla had no slow+, I'd probably full time it for /war and /rdm (when needing damage mitigation). But that isnt the case. Dont argue just to argue, jesus.

[FailureMidgard]

The beating off to blocks was a joke. The main reason for kaiser over valhalla is the slow%. Kaiser vs Valhalla isnt the same comparison as Shadow vs Boxers. Dont be so dense and butthurt from the last debate to start flaming this one.

If Valhalla had no slow+, I'd probably full time it for /war and /rdm (when needing damage mitigation). But that isnt the case. Dont argue just to argue, jesus.

I'm aware it was a joke. No wait, I actually thought you pulled down your pants and beat off every time you shield blocked.

But really, this makes no sense. Are you really that concerned with slow in a defensive setup? What exactly kind of setups is this supposed to be? Your half defensive half offensive setup? Do you realize that if that's the case, your Kaiser Schaller for all intents and purposes has 5% slow on it due to opportunity cost?

Forgive me if you don't actually use this set, but I'm going to go ahead and link it:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=45317

You are choosing vitality over haste. Really? And then you're gonna complain about slow on the helm? Why don't you just switch the body and choose vitality over PDT and slow there also?

What you post has no logical basis whatsoever. If you care about slow, you should care about haste on your gear, yet you obviously don't. It's just flat out hypocritical...

[Meat]

I've yet to encounter a time where i don't have a spell to cast on \rdm even full-timing both Valhalla pieces with my only haste comming from the spell.

[Chojja]

Do you realize that if that's the case, your Kaiser Schaller for all intents and purposes has 5% slow on it due to opportunity cost?

Kind of an invalid point since then Valhalla would have 10% slow due to opportunity costs, herego still making the same argument. Not that I'm picking sides....

[Neosutra]

I'm aware it was a joke. No wait, I actually thought you pulled down your pants and beat off every time you shield blocked.

But really, this makes no sense. Are you really that concerned with slow in a defensive setup? What exactly kind of setups is this supposed to be? Your half defensive half offensive setup? Do you realize that if that's the case, your Kaiser Schaller for all intents and purposes has 5% slow on it due to opportunity cost?

Forgive me if you don't actually use this set, but I'm going to go ahead and link it:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=45317

You are choosing vitality over haste. Really? And then you're gonna complain about slow on the helm? Why don't you just switch the body and choose vitality over PDT and slow there also?

What you post has no logical basis whatsoever. If you care about slow, you should care about haste on your gear, yet you obviously don't. It's just flat out hypocritical...

Ya, because attributing kaiser to 5% slow (because you're not wearing the 5% from turban) just goes more against valhalla which would be 10% slow..

And ever heard of mixed builds? I have valhalla in my full damage down set, but chose kaiser in my mixed damage redux build when fighting things with joytoy (things where I still want atonement spam, but cant afford to go all out haste due to the amount of damage recieved). This mixed set shines when soloing as pld/rdm and lesser HNMs. What are you even arguing again?

[FailureMidgard]

Kind of an invalid point since then Valhalla would have 10% slow due to opportunity costs, herego still making the same argument. Not that I'm picking sides....

The more haste you have, the more it does for you, going from Kaiser>Turban is actually a larger gain in attack speed than going from VHelm>Kaiser, all else being equal. Furthermore, I'm not debating the difference between WTurban and VHelm, so the 10% is irrelevant. I am saying that PDT is PDT, and when you look at the set being used, it is ignoring the existence of haste, he is the one using the argument of dropping defensive stats for haste, and I am saying why would you stop there, if that is your argument. Why would you use a VBody at all? Why would you use Kaiser Legs over Homam, or Valor Hands over Homam?

It's a huge logical flaw in general when people think that "well, I'm no worse off than naked, so that's ok".
He is sacrificing more haste for less PDT gains elsewhere.

[FailureMidgard]

Ya, because attributing kaiser to 5% slow (because you're not wearing the 5% from turban) just goes more against valhalla which would be 10% slow..

And ever heard of mixed builds? I have valhalla in my full damage down set, but chose kaiser in my mixed damage redux build when fighting things with joytoy (things where I still want atonement spam, but cant afford to go all out haste due to the amount of damage recieved). This mixed set shines when soloing as pld/rdm and lesser HNMs. What are you even arguing again?

Your mixed set chooses vitality over haste. That isn't a mixed set, seriously. See my other post, neutral stats doesn't make it a good choice, which seems to be your mentality.

[Neosutra]

Where am I choosing vitality over haste?