Shadow Mantle Proc Rate

[FailureMidgard]

That has nothing to do with shadow mantle, which offers more damage mitigation, no slow, and is omnidirectional. Stop comparing them, it isnt the same.

Holy fuck dude, I never once disagreed with that statement, stop trying to think I did just so you can "win" an argument. Same fucking shit happened last time this debate came up. I said you were wrong on interrupt because you were ignoring mantle procs on already blocked hits, and that boxers would prevent more interruptions, you then argued until your face was red that shadow mantle mitigated more damage, which I agreed with.

Just because you really really want me to be wrong, doesn't mean you can sit here and choose what point I'm arguing, I'm sorry.

[D44kpunk]

oh ok my bad, so when i said in my post i was talking about "idle" with strong sarcasm you just assumed i meant the opposite set, you're a bright one that's for sure.

[BerenTebogo]

oh ok my bad, so when i said in my post i was talking about "idle" with strong sarcasm you just assumed i meant the opposite set, you're a bright one that's for sure.

My mother always told me I was, are you saying she was wrong?

[Neosutra]

Holy fuck dude, I never once disagreed with that statement, stop trying to think I did just so you can "win" an argument. Same fucking shit happened last time this debate came up. I said you were wrong on interrupt because you were ignoring mantle procs on already blocked hits, and that boxers would prevent more interruptions, you then argued until your face was red that shadow mantle mitigated more damage, which I agreed with.

Just because you really really want me to be wrong, doesn't mean you can sit here and choose what point I'm arguing, I'm sorry.

You just spend the last page arguing how V.helm > Kaiser when I said in my first response what my original reasoning for this was. THIS debate is about shadow mantle vs. boxers (spawned by the OPs testing which wasnt very shocking).

And in my first post I even stated that boxers will offer more spell interupt. What are you even trying to argue here?

[FailureMidgard]

That has nothing to do with shadow mantle, which offers more damage mitigation, no slow, and is omnidirectional. Stop comparing them, it isnt the same.

^ I quoted this statement. See how it's only about Shadow Mantle?

Holy fuck dude, I never once disagreed with that statement, stop trying to think I did just so you can "win" an argument. Same fucking shit happened last time this debate came up. I said you were wrong on interrupt because you were ignoring mantle procs on already blocked hits, and that boxers would prevent more interruptions, you then argued until your face was red that shadow mantle mitigated more damage, which I agreed with.

Just because you really really want me to be wrong, doesn't mean you can sit here and choose what point I'm arguing, I'm sorry.

^ I responded with these. See how it's saying that I didn't disagree about SHADOW MANTLE mitigating more damage than Boxers? Also see when I said "last time this debate came up", I'm referring to in media a year or more ago or some shit? How back then, when I said Boxer's stopped more interruptions, you just responded with Shadow Mantle mitigating more, which I didn't argue with? Are you really this bad at reading?

You just spend the last page arguing how V.helm > Kaiser when I said in my first response what my original reasoning for this was. THIS debate is about shadow mantle vs. boxers (spawned by the OPs testing which wasnt very shocking).

WAT?! How is this remotely related to my last reply, where you tried to say I'm losing an argument about a fucking Shadow Mantle? And your original reasoning included:

I go with kaiser over valhalla for head due to minimal difference in damage mitigation and kaiser adding to your chances of getting shadows back up (when /nin ofcourse). Valhalla will offer more damage mitigation when /war or /rdm, but I dont really care for the constant slow%

Which I then argued with (and you have since conceded, I am only bringing it up because you seem to be delusional what we were even discussing, thinking I said Boxer's mitigates more damage).

And in my first post I even stated that boxers will offer more spell interupt. What are you even trying to argue here?

Reference to the past....sorry it confused you.

[Neosutra]

So you argue for a page about V.helm vs Kaiser, reference that to the tradeoff of 10 shield skill vs. Shadow mantle PDT, argue one loose point in one of my 10 different idle sets, and then try and say IM the one missing the point?

You arent saying boxers mitigates more damage, neither am I.

You are saying Vhelm > Kaiser for -pure- damage mitigation, so I am I.

The rest is semantics to save face.

Shut the fuck up.

[Konda]

If i can just interrupt the PLD stuff...


I heard there was a chance for shadow mantle to proc for half damage reduction, did you take this into account when testing, Kirschy?

If you didnt, it could skew the results a bit by suggesting it blocks less damage than it actually does.

[Thorny]

I heard there was a chance for shadow mantle to proc for half damage reduction, did you take this into account when testing, Kirschy?

you heard wrong

[pchan]

I have just been using 2skill=~1%, but I would welcome any data. It'll help me decide a bit on M Head vs V Helm, Shadow Mantle vs Boxers, and Askar vs AF1+1. (Most of the time it's an easy choice of course!)

How can this be possible ? With no spell interruption gear, pld can get interrupted (on blocks), right ? With base skill it would be 276/2=138%.. so you would cap ? Even 3skill=1% seems unlikely as 300 would cap you.

[Kaces]

How can this be possible ? With no spell interruption gear, pld can get interrupted (on blocks), right ? With base skill it would be 276/2=138%.. so you would cap ? Even 3skill=1% seems unlikely as 300 would cap you.

hawhat

[Virg]

With no spell interruption gear, pld can get interrupted (on blocks), right ?

Am I reading this wrong?

[Massimo]

With base skill it would be 276/2=138%.. so you would cap ? Even 3skill=1% seems unlikely as 300 would cap you.

This is why I don't wear accuracy gear. My naked WAR's already got 146% accuracy just from the skill.

With no spell interruption gear, pld can get interrupted (on blocks), right ?

No.

[pchan]

This is why I don't wear accuracy gear. My naked WAR's already got 146% accuracy just from the skill.



No.

Thanks for agreeing with me that the formula cannot be 2 skill=1% ... or maybe you need to go back to school and learn what % means !

[Massimo]

Thanks for agreeing with me that the formula cannot be 2 skill=1% ...

It's about matching the mob up to a certain % (80 with accuracy, I believe?), which is where the 2skill/acc=1% shit kicks in.

Of course, no one's done any (official) conclusive testing on shield blocking, but this is when comparing it to the already known formulas of FFXI.

PS: It's cute how you edit insults in. Nerd.

Spoiler: show

[Strai]

With no spell interruption gear, pld can get interrupted (on blocks), right ?

Someone will have to save this for sig.

[Virg]

Was tempted to sig it but I like my current more and it´s only like a day old.

[pchan]

It's about matching the mob up to a certain % (80 with accuracy, I believe?), which is where the 2skill/acc=1% shit kicks in.

Of course, no one's done any (official) conclusive testing on shield blocking, but this is when comparing it to the already known formulas of FFXI.

I sure hope the first guys that posted 2 skill = -1% spell interruption didn't pretext the melee accuracy "analogy" has a proof, because everything spell interruption related is totally different like .. it has no cap, isn't affected by level difference, etc.

I got it, nothing has been tested, don't bother doing maths comparing boxer to shadow or shield skill to pdt.

[Yarko]

How can this be possible ? With no spell interruption gear, pld can get interrupted (on blocks), right ? With base skill it would be 276/2=138%.. so you would cap ? Even 3skill=1% seems unlikely as 300 would cap you.

wat wat and wat

[TheMysteriousX]

With no spell interruption gear, pld can get interrupted (on blocks), right ?

Fucking lol.

Edit: the more I think about this the more I wtf. What did you think shield blocking actually did? Have you not questioned why PLD's use shield+ gear over PDT?

[Neosutra]

Pretty sure Pchan meant can't..

I disagree with the guy a lot, but no reason to hound him for half a page due to a mistype.

I also spent a shit ton of time testing shield proc rates way back and I know people were waiting for those results, however I was deployed before I finished. Mojo asked me for the data I had, but most of the hard data is on my CPU back home. However, here is the synopsis I gave him:

From my memory, the results were:

67% was about the soft cap for shield block rates, across all shields. (I gave a margin of error of 5%, however the true standard deviation was probably around 2% with the number of trials I completed.

Tests were done with lvl 50, 70, and 88 mobs, with a buckler, round shield, koenig, tatami, and Aegis. The main conclusion was that all shield sizes capped at about the same block rate, however smaller shield sizes took less shield skill to cap out. Aegis takes the same amount of skill to cap block rate as size 3 (koenig). The suprising point is that you can get the same block rate with a size 4 as you can with a size one, the skill needed just changes drastically. i.e. You should be able to reach block cap rate (67%) versus a lvl 40-50 mob, even with a size 4 shield. However you will almost never reach that cap with anything your level or higher.

Shield skill and level seem to be the 2 main factors. There seems to be a base block % per size versus the mob level you are fighting. Adding shield skill seems to increase this %, and my initial theory was you needed the same amount of skill you would have taken to be that level to get the block rates of that level (if that makes sense). i.e. If you are lvl 74, fighting a lvl 75 mob, and have just enough shield skill gear to equal a base lvl 75 character, you should block at the base % for that size (about 52% for Aegis).

I never saw any data that suggested tiers (at any number shield skill), but rather a gradual increase in block rate. The increase isnt the typical 2 shield skill = 1% block rate that most people accept, it's actually a bit lower than this, and is based on shield size.

For size 1, 2 shield skill = 1% block rate.

However for Aegis and Koenig, its more like 2.5 shield skill = 1% block rate. So a typical pld with 8 skill from merits, 7 from kaiser head, 7 from shield torque, 10 from boxers, 10 from feet, 3-5 from earring (42-45 skill), fighting a lvl 75-80 mob, will be at the soft cap for shield block rate. Once you start getting much past 80ish, you start seeing about a 1.5% block rate decline per level. Meaning even with full sheild gear, you still wont get much past 50% block rate on a lvl 90 mob. Note that the lowest block rate I recorded for Aegis on any mob level was 36% however.

Reprisal seems to add about a 5% boost on block rate, that can go past the soft cap of 67%, but I didnt really get a chance to confirm this, just initial observations.

Hope that helps, I can try and send more data if/when my wife gets that cpu back.

Basic conclusion though: Aegis > Size 3 > Size 4 for damage reduction (as we already assumed), 67% is soft cap maximum, 37% soft cap minimum (aegis/koenig), and pack on as much shield skill as you can when fighting mobs 80+ (when appropriate, /rdm, /war, and for ichi/ni) as you wont be capping out on those level mobs. Additionally, this shows that on anything you wont parry/evade much, shadow mantle wins out for damage mitigation.