Shadow Mantle Proc Rate

[Yarko]

Pretty sure Pchan meant can't..

I disagree with the guy a lot, but no reason to hound him for half a page due to a mistype.

he later posted "2 skill = -1% spell interruption" so I don't think it was a mistype...

And that wasn't the only big WTF in his post, he claimed 2 or 3 Shield Skill can't be equal to 1% block rate because else you would have 100% block rate (or capped anyway) with 200 (or 300) shield skill, totally ignoring the fact that shield skill is most likely compared to a monster's stat, be it its level or whatever, just like accuracy is compared to monster's evasion and attack to monster's defense...

[nitsuj]

lol at the same people arguing if "Super rare hard to get item 1" is 1% better than "Super rare hard to get item 2".

Not that I don't do the same shit, but I just don't do it publicly.

You guys should just be content that you have PLD gear that 99% of the FFXI community will never see, and stop worrying about always being "right".

[Kirschy]

How can this be possible ? With no spell interruption gear, pld can get interrupted (on blocks), right ? With base skill it would be 276/2=138%.. so you would cap ? Even 3skill=1% seems unlikely as 300 would cap you.

A block with Shield Mastery is 0% spell interruption during that hit.

We weren't implying that 2 shield skill is a direct 1% block increase, but when making gear choices we need to make an estimate. I feel when you're at at 276 shield, adding +32 skill(Boxers, Torque, Earring, AF1+1) adds around ~15% block rate. Maybe it's closer to 5% or 10%. I don't think anyone here is making claims on the actual shield block equations, just the shield skill->block rate comparison for endgame pld.

As for shadow mantle having half/proc hits, the data doesn't support it at all. Here's an expert from the data:

115 hits - 31 damage
212 hits - 32 damage
180 hits - 33 damage

10 hits for 15 damage
19 hits for 16 damage
15 hits for 17 damage

106 hits for 0 damage(Only counted non-crit 0s)

[Trill]

I would think shadow mantle usefullness is depending ont he mob you are fighting. For one if a pld uses the same equipment for every mob he is garbage no matter what gear he has. fighting over whether Mantle is usefull or not is like asking "should i use mantle on Nq turtle, or should i use mantle on Tiamat under 25%?" Im not a math geek at all so the numbers and the math not my thing but common sense would tell me that you should use mnatle at a specific situation where u know that you are about to take alot of damage and running the risk of dying. Its retarded to use shadow mantle casting ichi at full health. but on the same note smart to use it casting at >75% health while Tiamat has MS up. Again couldnt care less about the math of shield skill but it common sense it helps. a pld should use shield skill on ichi 95%of time. i mean if ur goin for damage mitigation WHILe attempting to mitigate damage via ichi, whats the point in casting ichi anyway. A shield block is what your are hoping for in the off chance ur goin to get hit while casting right? Shield block= mitigation of damage! You cant create a build for two seperates things and expect it to work. Yeah u can hope for the best but i can tell u 90% of the time the game is gonna screw u. Usually (not always) a tank can tell if they are goin to be hit during ichi. In that situation i would swap in damage mitigation wait to be hit and start casting ichi. To many time i see pld casting ichi 3 times before getting it off hoping for shield block to kick in. People so quickly forget PLD is here to BE ABLE to take a hit. if u only think about evading lvl NIN.

Shadow mantle procs enuff to be used in dire need situations but not enuff to be used fulltime. Im not calling myself a master tank in any standard but to me if i was fighting a mob that i expected to hit alot in i would rather stack on the hp build cure myself and prepare for impact. Again this meaning i was near cap hp to begin with. I can get about 500 hp above my normal tanking hp so i would view that as a good substitue for a low chance 100% damage mitgation piece. But again if ur low hp already and ur about to get hit with a high chance of dieing.. pray to black jesus and hope ur mantle procs

[FailureMidgard]

How can this be possible ? With no spell interruption gear, pld can get interrupted (on blocks), right ? With base skill it would be 276/2=138%.. so you would cap ? Even 3skill=1% seems unlikely as 300 would cap you.

Thanks for agreeing with me that the formula cannot be 2 skill=1% ... or maybe you need to go back to school and learn what % means !

I sure hope the first guys that posted 2 skill = -1% spell interruption didn't pretext the melee accuracy "analogy" has a proof, because everything spell interruption related is totally different like .. it has no cap, isn't affected by level difference, etc.

I got it, nothing has been tested, don't bother doing maths comparing boxer to shadow or shield skill to pdt.

Where the fuck do you get the shit you spew? Why do you think shield block works like spell interruption? Are you aware that shield block formulas were in the game back before it prevented spell interruption? Furthermore, are you aware that every job in the game besides paladin still gets interrupted whenever they shield block?

It is a very reasonable, and somewhat supported idea that shield block works similar to evasion, which is exactly what Massimo was getting at. It may not compare to the mob's accuracy, but the idea is dead on, and I'd be willing to bet almost anything that if you go test with 1 shield skill, then with 11 shield skill on a lvl 75 mob, you will get the exact same block rate.

[Klutz]

I would think shadow mantle usefullness is depending ont he mob you are fighting. For one if a pld uses the same equipment for every mob he is garbage no matter what gear he has. fighting over whether Mantle is usefull or not is like asking "should i use mantle on Nq turtle, or should i use mantle on Tiamat under 25%?" Im not a math geek at all so the numbers and the math not my thing but common sense would tell me that you should use mnatle at a specific situation where u know that you are about to take alot of damage and running the risk of dying. Its retarded to use shadow mantle casting ichi at full health. but on the same note smart to use it casting at >75% health while Tiamat has MS up. Again couldnt care less about the math of shield skill but it common sense it helps. a pld should use shield skill on ichi 95%of time. i mean if ur goin for damage mitigation WHILe attempting to mitigate damage via ichi, whats the point in casting ichi anyway. A shield block is what your are hoping for in the off chance ur goin to get hit while casting right? Shield block= mitigation of damage! You cant create a build for two seperates things and expect it to work. Yeah u can hope for the best but i can tell u 90% of the time the game is gonna screw u. Usually (not always) a tank can tell if they are goin to be hit during ichi. In that situation i would swap in damage mitigation wait to be hit and start casting ichi. To many time i see pld casting ichi 3 times before getting it off hoping for shield block to kick in. People so quickly forget PLD is here to BE ABLE to take a hit. if u only think about evading lvl NIN.

Shadow mantle procs enuff to be used in dire need situations but not enuff to be used fulltime. Im not calling myself a master tank in any standard but to me if i was fighting a mob that i expected to hit alot in i would rather stack on the hp build cure myself and prepare for impact. Again this meaning i was near cap hp to begin with. I can get about 500 hp above my normal tanking hp so i would view that as a good substitue for a low chance 100% damage mitgation piece. But again if ur low hp already and ur about to get hit with a high chance of dieing.. pray to black jesus and hope ur mantle procs

Tldr please. No offense but the 1 post makes me not want to read this.

[Massimo]

Tldr please. No offense but the 1 post makes me not want to read this.

Basically a "Shit is situational" post, which anyone with half a brain already knows.

Although it does have a few awful points in there, it's not worth bothering with.

[Klutz]

Basically a "Shit is situational" post, which anyone with half a brain already knows.

Although it does have a few awful points in there, it's not worth bothering with.

Thanks, lol. <3

[Gustave]

Is anyone taking reprisal into account on the vhelm/kasier & shadow mantle/boxer's debate?

[Klutz]

Is anyone taking reprisal into account on the vhelm/kasier & shadow mantle/boxer's debate?

Not that I know of. I'm no PLD, but pretty sure Reprisal doesn't affect the proc rate of Mantle.

[Konda]

People so quickly forget PLD is here to BE ABLE to take a hit. if u only think about evading lvl NIN.

lol'd if you think NIN evades hits.

We just equip -50% pdt, since it's much more effective than a "chance" to migate damage (like shield). Although shield combined with -pdt is very potent.

[Gustave]

Not that I know of. I'm no PLD, but pretty sure Reprisal doesn't affect the proc rate of Mantle.

Yea I was thinking more of how it affects your block rate.

[Kidnoftle]

lol'd if you think NIN evades hits.

We just equip -50% pdt, since it's much more effective than a "chance" to migate damage (like shield). Although shield combined with -pdt is very potent.

You never cease to shock me with your idiocy. Totally irrelevant to the other idiocy that's going on in this thread but there are quite a bit of things endgame wise that a nin can effectively eva tank.

In the debate of Boxers vs. Shadow mantle: It's situational, like every fucking thing else in this game, if you can't think of the situations where one is better than the other then don't fucking post.

[Klutz]

Yea I was thinking more of how it affects your block rate.

Oh ok, sorry. Then direct that question to someone else, lol. I have no idea. Not a PLD.

[Kidnoftle]

Yes, there are situations where reprisal would put you at the cap where boxer's would become pointless which is where shadow mantle would outperform boxers for dmg mitigation.

[Thorny]

Yes, there are situations where reprisal would put you at the cap where boxer's would become pointless which is where shadow mantle would outperform boxers for dmg mitigation.

hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

shadow mantle will always outperform boxers for damage mitigation

boxer's outperforms shadow for interruption due to increasing returns on shield block<>interrupt relationship

going from 50-55% shield rate, for example, is taking off ~10% of your interrupts while going 0-5% is only taking off ~5%

/thread

[Gustave]

hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

shadow mantle will always outperform boxers for damage mitigation

boxer's outperforms shadow for interruption due to increasing returns on shield block<>interrupt relationship

going from 50-55% shield rate, for example, is taking off ~10% of your interrupts while going 0-5% is only taking off ~5%

/thread

If your block rate is capped from reprisal then boxers is still pointless on the interrupts.

[Kidnoftle]

hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

shadow mantle will always outperform boxers for damage mitigation

boxer's outperforms shadow for interruption due to increasing returns on shield block<>interrupt relationship

going from 50-55% shield rate, for example, is taking off ~10% of your interrupts while going 0-5% is only taking off ~5%

/thread

Which is what I said, but thanks for repeating.

[Allelujah]

So my Ls did some T3 trolls today. These were my findings, which saved my life both times I aggro'd everything.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...212_193434.png

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...212_194815.png

[FailureMidgard]

I heard there was a chance for shadow mantle to proc for half damage reduction, did you take this into account when testing, Kirschy?

If you didnt, it could skew the results a bit by suggesting it blocks less damage than it actually does.

So my Ls did some T3 trolls today. These were my findings, which saved my life both times I aggro'd everything.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...212_193434.png

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...212_194815.png

Well, now we have conclusive evidence. In addition to the 0 damage procs and the half damage procs, shadow mantle even has +25% damage taken procs. Furthermore, I think it's safe to say that since you wear shadow mantle on your back, and you were kiting at the time, the proc rate of shadow mantle goes up when the mob attacks you from behind, it just fits perfectly with all the data we have!

/sarcasm.