Tanks

[Correction]

Wish I played in your battlegroup, trying to tell people things in random heroics in bloodlust almost always results in an intense hatred, utterly being ignored, and just general shitheadedness altogether.

This, 10000x. Bloodlust has some real shitheads. Yesterday's heroic OK:

Pre-Taldram pull.

Healer: My mouse's batteries just died, I need 2 minutes to replace them.

Tank pulls anyway. Guess what, Taldram targets the healer (who's still standing at the steps beneath the boss) and kills him. Kill takes forever because two more dps die.

On the runback, the moonkin aggros a pack while walking next to me and doesn't shadowmeld. Both flee and vanish are already off CD for me so I manage to evasion and solo one mob before the other two kill me.

On the second runback the paladin asks for a rez instead of running back like the rest of us. We get to Jedoga's part of the dungeon. There is a noticeable lack of mobs around. I start walking towards Volazj when I hear his /yell emote as the two other players have just pulled him without a healer and without two other dps.

Me: 'Is there a reason neither of you waited for the group? Volazj takes forever if people aren't within a reasonable distance of each other.'

SILENCE

Big surprise the first Insanity comes and two images are a mile away. So far away in fact that the Insanity ends and Volazj resets.

Moral of the story: Some people just can't be talked to.

[Acturus]

This, 10000x. Bloodlust has some real shitheads. Yesterday's heroic OK:

Pre-Taldram pull.

Healer: My mouse's batteries just died, I need 2 minutes to replace them.

[...]

Moral of the story: Some people just can't be talked to.

I agree, some times it's futile, but I'll be damned if I don't try.

That healer in your story is another HUGE pet peeve of mine. He's in the category with:

1. the 'lock who needs to afk to microwave something,
2. the Shaman who needs to use the bathroom first,
3. the Warrior tank who needs to change addons,
4. the treedruid whose dog needs to go out, and
5. THAT ONE FUCKING GUY (usually a dps) WHO WON'T FUCKING CONFIRM HIS FUCKING DUNGEON GROUP AND LETS THE REST OF US WATCH THE DUNGEON INVITE TIMER BAR SLOWWWWWWWWWLY DROP UNTIL WE ALL REQUEUE.

I'll let you decide which one pisses me off the most.


I guess I was taught better in FFXI, but how hard is it to get ready to do something before putting yourself up on the block? If everyone wants to get in, get badges, get out, then why are there so many of those people who slow PUGs down for stupid shit?

I know, I know this is Tanks discussion, not random complaint, but still.

/soapbox

[Eaglestrike]

Wut? I rarely need to tab target between mobs in aoe pulls on my prot paladin ever. Only time I lose threat to someone that doesn't severely outgear me is if they're being a retard and single-target dpsing a mob that isn't my target on a big aoe pull. And even than, I can use mouseover taunt/righteous defense taunt macros before I need to bother with tabbing around.

It's no different for a warrior. If cleave/glyphed devastate is hitting a mob dps won't pull it. It's just that cleave is naturally 2 (glyphed for 3) and devastate needs to be glyphed to hit 2 mobs.

I'd say the 'real issue' for warriors is that they have like 5-6 glyphs they need to be using depending on what they're doing. Whereas paladins have 3-target HotR baseline. Most pulls are 3-4 mobs so if you're covering 3 mobs fine you can easily taunt to cover the 4th guy if you lose threat.

I guess I was taught better in FFXI, but how hard is it to get ready to do something before putting yourself up on the block? If everyone wants to get in, get badges, get out, then why are there so many of those people who slow PUGs down for stupid shit?

You might be going a bit overboard here. Unless you mean inside the dungeon I can understand people missing the LFD queue since it's a 10-15min wait usually and not everyone sits by their computer. This happened all the time in FFXI with people being LFG but not being there for a while after you send a tell.

As well, plenty of people play FFXI without speed in mind. Really that just depends on the person, no game really emphasizes that, communities do. I know plenty of people fine with 10k/hour merit parties, that would annoy the shit out of me. Some people just enjoy "playing the game" which oddly involves not playing the game.

[Norellicus]

I agree, some times it's futile, but I'll be damned if I don't try.

That healer in your story is another HUGE pet peeve of mine. He's in the category with:

1. the 'lock who needs to afk to microwave something,
2. the Shaman who needs to use the bathroom first,
3. the Warrior tank who needs to change addons,
4. the treedruid whose dog needs to go out, and
5. THAT ONE FUCKING GUY (usually a dps) WHO WON'T FUCKING CONFIRM HIS FUCKING DUNGEON GROUP AND LETS THE REST OF US WATCH THE DUNGEON INVITE TIMER BAR SLOWWWWWWWWWLY DROP UNTIL WE ALL REQUEUE.

I'll let you decide which one pisses me off the most.


I guess I was taught better in FFXI, but how hard is it to get ready to do something before putting yourself up on the block? If everyone wants to get in, get badges, get out, then why are there so many of those people who slow PUGs down for stupid shit?

I know, I know this is Tanks discussion, not random complaint, but still.

/soapbox

To be fair, needing to change your mouse batteries isn't exactly something you can plan for, and the indicator that the batteries are low (if you have one at all, many don't) isn't likely visible while warcraft is running.

1 is annoying, 2 is unpredictable though inconvenient, 3 is mostly inexcusable as you should have any and all kinks worked out of addons before getting into serious matters with them (protip, queue some BGs, easy way to get stuff into 'stress tests')...4 is irritating and usually indicative of someone who can't legally drive oh god help me, and 5...yeah.

[Marcin]

It's no different for a warrior. If cleave/glyphed devastate is hitting a mob dps won't pull it. It's just that cleave is naturally 2 (glyphed for 3) and devastate needs to be glyphed to hit 2 mobs.

I'd say the 'real issue' for warriors is that they have like 5-6 glyphs they need to be using depending on what they're doing. Whereas paladins have 3-target HotR baseline. Most pulls are 3-4 mobs so if you're covering 3 mobs fine you can easily taunt to cover the 4th guy if you lose threat.

I carry glyphs in my bag for different situations and raid bosses, I was under the assumption that was pretty standard for most classes. I don't glyph for cleave, I hardly use it. As I mentioned earlier, a well timed thunderclap will snap aggro onto me, a strafe will line up a pull nicely followed by a shockwave on the pack gives me time to Demo. Shout a group, tab and use whatever rage allows me to on each one (preferably shield slam) and by then thunderclap is already up again.

We have intercept, we have charge, we have intervene, we have heroic throw. We have so many tools to keep packs away/off party members it's ridiculous. Challenging shout is also there though on a long CD if you're about to get overwhelmed.

The only heroic where I deal with rage starvation is in VH. But it's fucking VH, who gives a shit.

The main issue with warrior tanking is the fact that most warrior's just do what's good enough to get by as opposed to going out of their way.

[Plow]

and the response is going to be "but paladins don't have to go out of their way!"

which is true, if you don't mind sucking

[Correction]

That healer in your story is another HUGE pet peeve of mine. He's in the category with:

You are insane. He didn't ask for a very long time and the tank ignored him completely, setting off a series of events that snowballed into the clusterfuck at Volazj I mentioned. Instead of wait 2 minutes he barreled on ahead with his 'fuck you guys I'm soloing this' attitude and wasted everybody's time, including his own.

Sometimes my queue pops and then my phone rings. Guess what? I enter the dungeon then grab my phone real quick. God forbid I don't pay 100% attention to 15 minutes of WoW.

[Acturus]

You are insane. He didn't ask for a very long time and the tank ignored him completely, setting off a series of events that snowballed into the clusterfuck at Volazj I mentioned. Instead of wait 2 minutes he barreled on ahead with his 'fuck you guys I'm soloing this' attitude and wasted everybody's time, including his own.

Sometimes my queue pops and then my phone rings. Guess what? I enter the dungeon then grab my phone real quick. God forbid I don't pay 100% attention to 15 minutes of WoW.

Yes, god forbid. I've never quite understood how WoW was so "me-centric". I don't care what's going on in your general vicinity, so long as it doesn't interfere with what the rest of us are trying to accomplish. If you can talk on the phone while running around a dungeon hitting hotkeys, then more power to you. But if not, then there's one of you, and four of the rest of us waiting on you.

Yes, shit happens, and I'm less upset about that stuff as I am about things that are easily avoidable. If it's unavoidable and/or unexpected, and it's going to be a few minutes, then I'd expect that person to mention it in chat and let the party decide whether to wait or Vote-Kick him. It's that easy, and I'd expect to be treated the same way if I queued up, zoned in to wherever, and my dog decided at that point to vomit up whatever dustbunnies he recently found.

Understand though, that I'm not some militant clock watcher in my PUGs. I've got a PSP (or alt-tab), and I'm passive-aggressive enough to wait and see if the rest of the group is okay with sitting back and waiting for Joe Player to take a call for 5, 10, 15 minutes.

My examples were mostly pulled outta my ass (the microwave food thing and the dog thing were legit, happened back to back too. It was a bad PUG day), but my point still stands: If you, the player, are throwing yourself in queue, then you need to be prepared to put your attention on the task at hand, because "WoW" or not, there are four other people who should be equally vested in however brief a period of time it takes to crawl through hVH.

[D44kpunk]

you should be able to vote to kick right away, some people are just fail, and i'm not talking about undergeared players not pulling their weight because that's just part of heroics. 9/10 times i'll get a group with an annoying rogue or dk tank that is geared out but will just do the most retarded shit ever

[Correction]

If you, the player, are throwing yourself in queue, then you need to be prepared to put your attention on the task at hand, because "WoW" or not, there are four other people who should be equally vested in however brief a period of time it takes to crawl through hVH.

I don't disagree, but what's weird is how you pin this kind of behavior on the healer of my story, because his batteries went dead and was unable to click important things like unit frames to heal people properly. That's worth waiting a little bit of time for and isn't some bullshit personal 'oops my dog/pet/mom demands my attention' reason to ask for a little more time.

[deshende]

I carry glyphs in my bag for different situations and raid bosses, I was under the assumption that was pretty standard for most classes.

This seems crazy for me. (Granted I don't do any hardcore raiding though).
Reminds me of back in the day when people used to respec multiple times a day before dual spec was introduced.

[Arvin]

i pull mobs as a healer, usually i go ahead of the pack whil ethey're finishing that last mob and train it over to the tank because i seriously think some peoples mentality as a tank is slow

[Marcin]

This seems crazy for me. (Granted I don't do any hardcore raiding though).
Reminds me of back in the day when people used to respec multiple times a day before dual spec was introduced.

Glyphs are so cheap I don't see why not to do it unless your class has cookie cutter glyph selections (Death Knights.) Warrior has a ton of glyphs I can use depending on the situation.

i pull mobs as a healer, usually i go ahead of the pack whil ethey're finishing that last mob and train it over to the tank because i seriously think some peoples mentality as a tank is slow

When I used to play Death Knight i'd get tanks who'd wait for their Heroic Throw to come off CD before pulling another pack, shit was beyond retarded.

[Altimus]

i pull mobs as a healer, usually i go ahead of the pack whil ethey're finishing that last mob and train it over to the tank because i seriously think some peoples mentality as a tank is slow

Tanks control the speed of the run and are the defacto "leader" of random 5-mans. Therefore, I pull as fast as humanly possible without wiping the 5-man. All it requires is a moderate to good healer really, I pretty much ignore pug dps in 5 mans because 70%+ of the time I do more damage than them (not kidding) as a tank. Usually I get most dungeons down before the Dungeon Cooldown debuff wears off and I have never had anyone complain that I made the dungeon go quickly.

However, I do skip as many bosses as possible and when Mr. randomdps complains that I am skipping a boss (especially Eck) I simply ignore them because I don't give a shit if he wants another Triumph badge, because I'm only here for my daily 2 frost badges.

[Norellicus]

Tanks control the speed of the run and are the defacto "leader" of random 5-mans. Therefore, I pull as fast as humanly possible without wiping the 5-man. All it requires is a moderate to good healer really, I pretty much ignore pug dps in 5 mans because 70%+ of the time I do more damage than them (not kidding) as a tank. Usually I get most dungeons down before the Dungeon Cooldown debuff wears off and I have never had anyone complain that I made the dungeon go quickly.

However, I do skip as many bosses as possible and when Mr. randomdps complains that I am skipping a boss (especially Eck) I simply ignore them because I don't give a shit if he wants another Triumph badge, because I'm only here for my daily 2 frost badges.

grats on being a posterboy for the OP's issues

[Eaglestrike]

grats on being a posterboy for the OP's issues

And for doing exactly what I do, on my 3-geared tanks and I'm working on my 4th tanks gear so I'll be doing this exact thing 4x a day

[Arvin]

heres something that some peoples feeble little minds can probably grasp the concept of:

in FFXI, you would constantly pull and chain mobs for exp

in WoW, you should constantly pull mobs if you have the manpower/skill to because the FASTER YOU KILL MOBS TO GET BADGES. think of badges like exp

horrible tanks are horrible.

[Deejay]

If I want to play a tank, which class is easiest to start/gear as a noob lvl 80? I'm thinking of starting this game again up before FF14 hits.

oh and no i haven't read any posts in this thread

[Eaglestrike]

If I want to play a tank, which class is easiest to start/gear as a noob lvl 80? I'm thinking of starting this game again up before FF14 hits.

oh and no i haven't read any posts in this thread

Druid. Druids tank in leather that any druid or rogue uses. PvP gear works perfectly fine for them. All you do is get stam enchants and gems in DPS leather and you get it fully geared up.

Paladin 2nd if you prefer the archetype or style more. But Paladin suffers in the gearing issue in that there's dick for shields once you get to end-game and you need specific plate tanking gear to do it.

Druid you generally use two buttons (Swipe and maul) and just throw on the highest stam leather gear you get, leather gear drops everywhere.

[Kaylia]

And for doing exactly what I do, on my 3-geared tanks and I'm working on my 4th tanks gear so I'll be doing this exact thing 4x a day

You can just ask politely. I havent seen any objection so far.