Go go Rhode Island

[Viq]

You couldn't pay me enough to spend that much time per day in Central Falls. What a crap hole.

[Olo401]

That's some Reagan-style Union busting right there.

Since you seem geographically vested in this story, do you think the Super was just out to get rid of the union and/or their "hold" on the school?

I think that's part of it yes. The super obviously wants to improve the situation in CF but, as far as it's been reported, she never sat down with the teachers beforehand nor did she get any public feedback from the parents or students. She went straight to an ultimatum - showing that she at the very least blames the teachers' union, who doesn't set the school policies and whose members are on the front lines busting their asses every day, for the students' poor testing performance.

Like I mentioned earlier the unions in this state, especially the teachers unions, are powerful and hard-headed but are not above talking things over to find a common path to a worthy goal. Refusing to look for that common path will only get the unions pissed off enough to use their political influence in the State Assembly (which is the most lopsided towards Democrats in the country, 69-6 in the House and 34-4 in the Senate) to quash the superintendent's plans.

You couldn't pay me enough to spend that much time per day in Central Falls. What a crap hole.

That's the other thing - if this super thinks firing every teacher so she can hire new ones at lower wages is going to work in the shittiest 1 sq.mi. of the state, she's out of her mind. The reason these teachers are paid so highly is because the city NEEDS to attract highly talented and motivated teachers like them, who are willing to come to a place where the students need them the most and bust their ass every day. And firing them all isn't going to make the students any more motivated to learn - in fact I'd wager it makes things worse.

[Egon]

Kill the union and this wouldn't be a problem.

[Correction]

just something to consider, now that the superintendent has fired 100 people making over 70k a year, they can now hire 100 fresh teachers who make 35-40k per year and save themselves 3,000,000/yr in payroll. I'm sure they had mostly good intentions, but to think there wasn't some financial motivation is kind naive.

Some might call this the "Circuit City Gambit."

The reason these teachers are paid so highly is because the city NEEDS to attract highly talented and motivated teachers like them, who are willing to come to a place where the students need them the most and bust their ass every day. And firing them all isn't going to make the students any more motivated to learn - in fact I'd wager it makes things worse.

I don't like this argument when it is applied to CEO salaries. I like it even less when it's applied to teachers. Simply paying them a fortune to work in a hole of squalor was never motivation to actually produce results. There must be a better way than to pay a teacher an engineer's salary to produce dozens of students who can't read or do arithmetic every year.

[Lucavi]

You couldn't pay me enough to spend that much time per day in Central Falls. What a crap hole.

You could pay me that much, fosho. The entire world is a crap hole - look at all of the bickering and killing and in-fighting out there - why single out one area?

[Viq]

You've clearly never been to CF.

[Olo401]

I don't like this argument when it is applied to CEO salaries. I like it even less when it's applied to teachers. Simply paying them a fortune to work in a hole of squalor was never motivation to actually produce results. There must be a better way than to pay a teacher an engineer's salary to produce dozens of students who can't read or do arithmetic every year.

Well there is.. it's called merit-based pay. Unfortunately the union won't go for it, which is why I think they're hard-headed. If merit pay is done correctly - meaning it's based not only on student performance but also on how hard everyone feels a teacher is working. The blame for bad grades and test scores should not wholly fall on the teachers - it needs to also be spread among the administration, students and parents.

[Leif]

Wish they would do something similar around here, but it's the administration that needs to be fired, not the teachers.

$15M in budget cuts the last 2 years, lots of teachers losing their jobs, but the superintendent is still making 500k/yr, and secretaries at the administrative level make more than teachers.

Thanks, Democrats!

The teachers at the high school make $70,000-$78,000, as compared to a median income in the town of $22,000.

Thanks, Democrats!

This exemplifies a nationwide trend in which public sector workers make far more than their private-sector counterparts (with better benefits).

Thanks, Democrats!

Apparently 50% of the students at the school are failing all of their classes, and the graduation rate is also under 50%.

Thanks, Democrats!

the superintendent requested some changes be made whereby the school day would be slightly extended, teachers would perform some extra tutoring, etc.

The union balked and refused the terms,

Thanks, Democrats!




BOY, I LOVE DEMOCRATS.

[ZarakiKujata]

edit: fuck nvm.

inb4 leif and down with public edumakshion

[Leif]

edit: fuck nvm.

inb4 leif and down with public edumakshion

=)

[Antithesis]

These kids need to be smarter about this situation. Who the hell stays in High School the full four years?

Wait till 16 > Drop out > GED > College > ??? > Profit.

As far as I know, no fucking difference between a GED and a Diploma, a Diploma just looks and sounds fancier. Big fucking whoop.

If I had known about that sooner I would have done it in a heart beat. Fuck spending two extra years in the shit hole that is High School. College rapes it in every imaginable form.

[ZarakiKujata]

These kids need to be smarter about this situation. Who the hell stays in High School the full four years?

Wait till 16 > Drop out > GED > College > ??? > Profit.

As far as I know, no fucking difference between a GED and a Diploma, a Diploma just looks and sounds fancier. Big fucking whoop.

If I had known about that sooner I would have done it in a heart beat. Fuck spending two extra years in the shit hole that is High School. College rapes it in every imaginable form.

Taking AP classes/tests those extra 2 years.
Fuck high school bitches.
Get out of intro classes in college
???
Profit

[Not Kuno]

AP classes is the best reason to stay in HS.

Also NCLB was made by bush and we can see what a huge benefit that had to education. Just drop all the failing schools great plan!

[Antithesis]

Taking AP classes/tests those extra 2 years.
Fuck high school bitches.
Get out of intro classes in college
???
Profit

AP Class in high school are 10 times more difficult than there actual College counterparts for absolutely no reason.

[Leif]

AP Class in high school are 10 times more difficult than there actual College counterparts for absolutely no reason.

I don't believe you, but it doesn't matter.

AP tests scores are the only significant grade.

Your super hard AP class is completely irrelevant.

[Antithesis]

I don't believe you, but it doesn't matter.

AP tests scores are the only significant grade.

Your super hard AP class is completely irrelevant.

For all I know, it could be different in other states, etc. However, down here all the High School AP Classes are way to rigorous and difficult if you compare them to the college classes. I took a Humanities / World Religions AP class in HS, got an F (along with a couple of other students) first semester and then switched and said fuck it. Took the same class in college and breezed through it with an A (during the summer term no less.)

[Antithesis]

Your super hard AP class is completely irrelevant.

The grade you get in class does affect your GPA you know....

[Marootsoobutsu]

http://www.projo.com/education/conte...1.3a65218.html
I'm not a fan of the teachers unions in this state. They really have gotten out of control on a great many things and usually I go against them, especially on issues such as merit-based pay. However, being a resident of this tiny state and having followed this story just about every day since it became a public matter, I can easily say that the story eunhye linked to has a big ass lie - the union was the one who wanted to negotiate, not the superintendent. Gallo's position from the very start was every teacher would be forced, at the very least, to re-apply for their jobs, in violation of the current collective barganing contract. The teachers offered to negotiate and work on the problems facing the school system, but the superindendent refused. And since the teachers didn't unconditionally bend to the will of the superintendent by the Monday deadline, she fired them because her only interest is breaking the union and trying to hire a bunch of teachers who will work for half-price or less.

And the real kicker - $800k was rerouted to pay four teachers and an adminstrator at a new Charter School in the same city. Stay classy, Mz. Gallo.

I dunno. Reading the article you posted doesn't really seem to help the teacher's case. In 2008-09, 3% of 11th graders tested proficient in math, and only 7% in 2009-10. In a school of just over 1,000 students, this means that about 70 passed, and 930 failed. This doesn't tell me that the teachers are really doing everything they can to help, and when things are that awful, the union needs to take a fricking back seat for a while, let the ship get righted, and then worry about negotiating when they have something to negotiate with. Two students sticking up for teachers that seem to do a great job of slacking doesn't inspire me with righteous indignation on behalf of the union. And while I don't doubt that some of the students are lazy bastards, that's incredibly lopsided to a point where I don't for one second believe it's a matter of all-student-based issues.

It also sounds like Gallo had this handed down to her from on high, and while the article doesn't mention the other two options she had, the union had to know that a superintendent isn't going to mess around with test results that low. The article also said that she began talks with teachers in November 2009. In January, the state demanded either a closure or a complete overhaul. Gallo doesn't bring up the "We're firing everyone if we don't get this agreed to" threat until almost a month later.

Again, this is all from the article you linked.

As for the 800k for a charter school, it doesn't sound like money is really the problem; accountability is. When you're pulling in 70K a year, and failing miserably at your job, you have to recognize that you just don't have any bargaining power, and need to accept terms from on high. When you do a damned fine job, or even an acceptable job, you have room to flex some muscle.


tl;dr: article says Gallo started talks in November, was handed this down from on high, and in the end it was close the school or fire everyone. Union tried to negotiate, when they had a 7% success rate in math-- keep in mind, 50% of students were failing *all* classes; it appears 93% at least are failing at least one. IMO, that's the kind of shit that needs strong-armed, not finessed.

[Khajit]

Do the teachers get paid during the lunch break for this because this just turned their break time into work time. Somehow i doubt it.
Oh and with shitty pass rates like that those teachers needed to be fired anyway.

[eunhye]

As for the 800k for a charter school, it doesn't sound like money is really the problem; accountability is. When you're pulling in 70K a year, and failing miserably at your job, you have to recognize that you just don't have any bargaining power, and need to accept terms from on high. When you do a damned fine job, or even an acceptable job, you have room to flex some muscle.

orly?