Go go Rhode Island

[ZarakiKujata]

AP Class in high school are 10 times more difficult than there actual College counterparts for absolutely no reason.

Depends on the class and the teacher(I've had AP classes that were harder than the college ones I took, i.e. AP US Government was so much harder than its equivalent at my school. Then again AP Psych was a cakewalk compared to Psych 101 from what my friends told me) But really working a little harder is a small price to pay for not having to pay less tuition?(If you use those AP classes to get out sooner/use them to jump start a double major etc)

edit: I think the difference is how your teacher structures the AP class, if there is a district wide mandate to teach to the AP test then obviously the class will be easier and you won't learn shit (my AP Psych class). OTH, if it was like my Honors US History class where it was arguably harder because she did not teach to any test, those of us who wanted to take the AP could simply do it on our own, you end up working harder but its ultimately a richer experience and you are more likely to get a 5 which in todays competitive college environment is all most schools will accept for credit.

[Marootsoobutsu]

orly?

Yes? In this case, they are doing a terrible job, so no room to make demands. But when someone does, they can make some demands and not appear like total slobbering assholes? Is there something difficult in that concept?

[Diamicles]

Yes? In this case, they are doing a terrible job, so no room to make demands. But when someone does, they can make some demands and not appear like total slobbering assholes? Is there something difficult in that concept?

Ever heard the saying "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink?"

Just because the students are doing terrible doesn't mean that the teachers aren't doing a good job teaching the curriculum that is required of them. The students have to want to learn and do well before the teacher can be effective.

Some people might think it's a 'chicken or the egg' thing, but it really isn't. If ALL the students were failing, then you could pin it on the teachers.

[Marootsoobutsu]

Ever heard the saying "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink?"

Just because the students are doing terrible doesn't mean that the teachers aren't doing a good job teaching the curriculum that is required of them. The students have to want to learn and do well before the teacher can be effective.

Some people might think it's a 'chicken or the egg' thing, but it really isn't. If ALL the students were failing, then you could pin it on the teachers.

93% of 11th graders failed math proficiency this year; 97% failed last year. 50% of the students are failing *ALL* of their classes. Yes, I think you can pin that on the teachers. Not saying parents, admin, and students are blame free themselves, but 93% failing math tells me the math department, at the very least, needs to go.

[Diamicles]

Yes, I'd agree with the math department possibly being a problem.

Answer this though: What's the attendance percentage of the students that are failing all of their classes? There were about 40 kids at my high school that never went to class, and therefore failed everything. My class of 320 graduated about 275 because of this, mainly. Can't fault the teachers if the kids don't show up, right?

edit: I'm just playing devils advocate here, my wife is a teacher (and a damn good one at that) and I've seen how much extra blame can be placed on teachers without a real reason.

[Jefe]

Sounds like a chance to get a green card >_>
Do they teach computer basics or 101 or w/e in that school? Hell I could even teach spanish for 80k a year.

Embrace EE/CE, the jack of a bunch of trades. Hell, I was tutoring (jc that is):

• Mathematics (up to calc 2).
• Spanish
• Logic
• Office Administration (Word, Excel, and the such).
• Graphic design (usually PS and IL)
• Programming
• Writing
• Philosophy

Not say you'll be teaching English or w/e, but ee/ce branches off to a shit load of occupations.

Btw, unions are fucking awesome. I swear it's fucking difficult to get your ass fired... unless you do something incredibly stupid, then again one can still fight to maintain the position. The supervisor can't intimidate your ass. If for some reason they want to discuss anything job-related, 2 union representatives are required to be present. Otherwise they are violating the union's contract and you can take them to court. ;o

[willriker]

The issue is not whos to blame for the low scores. There are two problems. The first problem is identifying who is standing in the way of trying to raise the scores. the second problem is agreeing on apropriate methods to raise the scores.

I dont think that anyone is saying that the low proficiencies are entirely the teachers fault. That is just as silly as saying that the low profeciencies are entirely the students fault.

The Superintendant has no power over how hard the students work, in or out of school. The Superintendant only has power over the people under her employment. Therefore, any solution the low profeciencies, from the super intendant, will be to get the teachers to change behavior in order to 'do a better job' at getting young adults to learn the required material. How would you, as a superintendant, try to improve students understanding of the subject matter at hand? Your only real power is vs the teachers or the process in which the teaching is organized. While the superintendant probably does recognize that some kids simply do not want to learn, she cant really follow them home at night to make sure they study.

The only thing the superintendant can really do is say that she needs to change the school districts approach towards teaching these students. Because the current formula is not yeilding the desired results. The superintendants hands are kind of tied in that she cant really do much else then adjust the experience of the student while that student is in school/class.

If the teachers want to stand in the way of the superintendant's changes, they try to negotiate through thier union. Personally, i am not suprized the teachers union would say that it is not the teachers fault that the children arent learning the material. If the Union was to admit that even a portion of it was their fault, the teachers would lose negotiating power.

As for the 800k for a charter school, it doesn't sound like money is really the problem; accountability is. When you're pulling in 70K a year, and failing miserably at your job, you have to recognize that you just don't have any bargaining power, and need to accept terms from on high. When you do a damned fine job, or even an acceptable job, you have room to flex some muscle.

The Union failed to recognize the truth in this statement. The Union was placed on the defence by some pretty good politicing by the superintendant. The group on the defence has a hard time winning any battle. The problem is that the Union thought they were on the offence. The Union held to the belief that the teachers were not at all to blame. And they suffered a terrible defeat.

All that remains to be seen is what the armistice agreement might look like, if one is even agreed to.

[grantlogan]

50% of the the students failing is just incredibly awful. The teachers brought it on themselves. Maybe they should have brought in Cartman to teach them. "How can I reach these keeds!"

[Not Kuno]

The administrators of the school need to do some serious changes to make it a positive learning enviornment. The teachers can only do so much on their own. If you have students come in late constantly, the school needs to do things about that. If the walls have graffiti at all times then how about putting up student work. You can't just blame everything on the teachers and thats why they have such a bad rep. Everyone hast to do their part, the principle does more then just sit at a desk and make more money. It is upto them, and their AP's to make shit work. And yes even at shitty ultra ghetto schools, a good principle can turn shit around in half a year.

[Olo401]

I know what that school needs..

http://www.dvd.net.au/movies/l/08763-1.jpg

You've tried it your way for years, and your students can't even pass the State's Minimum Basic Skills Test. THAT MEANS THEY CAN BARELY READ! Now, they've given me one year to turn this place around, to get those test scores up, so that the State will not take us over to perform the task which YOU have failed to accomplish: the task of EDUCATING OUR CHILDREN! So forget about the way it used to be. This is not a damn democracy! We are in a state of emergency and my word is law! There's only one boss around here, and that's me. The HNIC.

[Tajin]

No you won't! I won't stand for this injustice!

; ; </3

@Meteora: EE = Elementary English / CE = Computer Elementary?

Also I hate unions :/

[ZarakiKujata]

And yes even at shitty ultra ghetto schools, a good principle can turn shit around in half a year.

I don't know if anybody has seen the PBS special about it, but back when he was superintendent in Chicago, the current Secretary of Education Arnie Duncan did something like this at an inner city elementary school there. Handed it over to an NGO nonprofit who hired a hardcore principal who fired everybody ( including janitorial staff for keeping the place a shit hole), then hired back only 3 teachers and the lunch ladies. The principal is a former military man and he runs the place like a military base at this point with how the kids behave in the halls, show up to school, etc. The teachers union looks pissed but the program seems to have worked and he wants to do this stuff at the national level now. The nonprofit trains these teachers to be better and there are incentives ($$) for good teachers. OFC the caveat is that they only do elementary schools b/c once the kids reach HS its almost impossible to really do anything with their perceptions of school, learning, classroom behavior etc.

[Jefe]

; ; </3

@Meteora: EE = Elementary English / CE = Computer Elementary?

Also I hate unions :/

Electrical Engineering/Computer Engineering.

[Leif]

Basically, do something useful.

[Weltall]

High school teachers make 70k there?

Here they make like 30k....moving up there......70k + summers off? FML

[Tajin]

Electrical Engineering/Computer Engineering.

Oh that's what I thought at first, well got it covered then.

[Priran]

The school superintendent has responded to the union's stubbornness by firing every teacher and administrator at the school.

holy shit, like a boss

[Cleverness]

So teachers were getting paid 70k to have over 50% of all students fail everything? Fuck that noise, I'll work there for 2/3 of that and still make more than the average teacher in this state. Maybe the way the superintendent approached the problem is questionable, but if you have 90+ percent of all students FAILING basic math proficiency there's a fucking problem. As a former math tutor this shit just makes me rage cause there's nothing harder than trying to teach a 20+ year old person basic math skills they should have known since JHS or HS. It shouldn't have come down to this, the teachers themselves should have known there was an issue after seeing these statistics.

But when you make more than double the average teachers salary, I guess you don't care. I could probably commute 1-2 hours everyday there(back and forth) and still average out more than an average teacher in this city if they were getting those hours added on to their paycheck.

[archibaldcrane]

Maybe the way the superintendent approached the problem is questionable, but if you have 90+ percent of all students FAILING basic math proficiency there's a fucking problem.

And whatever that problem is, it started -way- before high school.

If you have an algebra class, or a geometry class, and half the kids don't know basic arithmetic, what the fuck are you supposed to do as a teacher? My dad ran into this occasionally, he was a lifelong geometry and algebra/trig teacher.

It sounds like there are a ton of kids in high school that shouldn't have passed 6th grade. Do students flunk grades ever anymore? I don't know how shit gets this bad.

[MysteryMithra]

Where is Qalbert? He should have posted a picture of Principal Joe Clark by now.