2010 MLB Season Discussion

[Ensam]

I'm perfectly happy having the best shortstop in the game on my team even though he doesn't care.

Who gives a fuck that he doesn't LOOK like he cares. Know what I like? Winning ball games. Know what I don't care about? What ballplayers look like.

Also, with Ryan's comments about pitchers and such, if I was a TEX fan I'd be rooting hard core for him not to have the say on stuff. There wouldn't be another pitching prospect come up through TEX system.

[Cephius]

The NFL forbids its owners from owning any other sports team, and I can imagine the MLB would frown upon it as well.

[Cephius]

I'm perfectly happy having the best shortstop in the game on my team even though he doesn't care.

Just sayin'

Also, with Ryan's comments about pitchers and such, if I was a TEX fan I'd be rooting hard core for him not to have the say on stuff. There wouldn't be another pitching prospect come up through TEX system.

Not caring and putting up outrageous numbers anyway != not caring and doing jack shit

[Stiker]

Seems everything is going oh so well in court. As soon as everyone went into the hall for recess Greenburg's lawyer and a lawyer representing some of the creditors were dropping F-bombs on each other.

Good to see the system work so well.

[*Shinzon*]

I'm perfectly happy having the best shortstop in the game on my team even though he doesn't care.

Just sayin'

Also, with Ryan's comments about pitchers and such, if I was a TEX fan I'd be rooting hard core for him not to have the say on stuff. There wouldn't be another pitching prospect come up through TEX system.

Yeah well Hanley can still hit, even though he sucks this year compared to last when you look at his peripheral numbers, particularly his avg against lefties. Yunel was hitting what, like 185? in his last few games before they dealt him. He wasn't exactly an offensive beast like Hanley can be. Not the same caliber player.

[Stiker]

Also, with Ryan's comments about pitchers and such, if I was a TEX fan I'd be rooting hard core for him not to have the say on stuff. There wouldn't be another pitching prospect come up through TEX system.

Yes, Feliz, Hunter, Harrison, Scheppers, and Ogando have clearly had their arms shot off. Holland has had injuries...to his leg. We have one of the healthier staffs in the league right now up and down the system.

The organization as a whole does pay attention to arms, they just don't believe in a hard pitch count. You go based on pitcher and the shape they are in. Plus, they aren't nearly as hard on the minor leaguers as you think. Young arms are on a much tighter leash than a veteran is.

[Ensam]

Yes, Feliz, Hunter, Harrison, Scheppers, and Ogando have clearly had their arms shot off. Holland has had injuries...to his leg. We have one of the healthier staffs in the league right now up and down the system.

The organization as a whole does pay attention to arms, they just don't believe in a hard pitch count. You go based on pitcher and the shape they are in. Plus, they aren't nearly as hard on the minor leaguers as you think. Young arms are on a much tighter leash than a veteran is.

Except Ryan does not have the final say on stuff right now. All he has is input.

[Ensam]

Yeah well Hanley can still hit, even though he sucks this year compared to last when you look at his peripheral numbers, particularly his avg against lefties. Yunel was hitting what, like 185? in his last few games before they dealt him. He wasn't exactly an offensive beast like Hanley can be. Not the same caliber player.

WAR by year
07: 2.4 (94 games)
08: 3.3 (136)
09: 4.3 (141)
10: 1.3 (91)

Escobar is still walking as much as he strikes out, he's still playing great defense. his numbers are bad in atl cuz of a .270 BABIP and zero home runs/barely any doubles. The chances of that sustaining are incredibly mute. He's a very good ball player.

[Stiker]

Except Ryan does not have the final say on stuff right now. All he has is input.

Wait WHAT?! Who is overruling him? Tom Hicks?

He's the freakin' president of the club, which includes baseball operations. The buck stops at him and Daniels from an organizational standpoint. He also has said numerous times he trusts the judgment of Maddox and Washington in when to pull a pitcher.

He simply wants the pitchers to work out harder than in the past, do more long toss to strengthen their arms, and not use pitch counts as the sole reasoning for pulling a pitcher.

There is an entire new workout routine for pitchers in the entire system that was instituted by Ryan. Ryan recommended Maddox to the club. I could go on and on.

What you are seeing right now is Ryan's fingerprints all over the organization. That isn't going to change when he starts co-signing checks.

[Moss]

Eye tests are usually a shitty way to judge things.

Except that a lazy throw to first that nearly gets Troy Glaus's hand broken doesn't show up on the stat sheet. You and Ensam can drool over escobar all you want, but you haven't seen him play and interact day in and day out. Comparing Hanley and Escobar is ridiculous.

[Cephius]

Except that a lazy throw to first that nearly gets Troy Glaus's hand broken doesn't show up on the stat sheet. You and Ensam can drool over escobar all you want, but you haven't seen him play and interact day in and day out. Comparing Hanley and Escobar is ridiculous.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: everything you said about Escobar was said about Cano 2 years ago. And look at him today. Yunel probably isn't Cano, but with his god-given talent he could be pretty close if he develops. Not saying the Braves were wrong for dumping him, but it's an awful risk.

Also, not to drop this on you but I saw it and lol'd:

http://i30.tinypic.com/minfd2.jpg

[*Shinzon*]

Again Escobar is just not that type of player. He's really nothing to get upset about. He's an ideal #2 hitter at best. He wont hit for power, and he doesn't steal bases. Has to hit to contact and go the otherway to be successeful. Cano got blasted because he was so good offensively or showed the ability to be so good and was absolute shit on defense because he was playing lazy. Escobar doesn't have that crutch to lean on. He's an average short stop, glove man and nothing more really. I'm not even a braves fan, but I've seen enough of Escobar to understand the situation.

[Moss]

So what happened with Cano? He showed up one year with a new attitude?

I know Escobar is a good player with plenty of potential. My point remains that the trade was necessary for a playoff run. If we were crappy this year, the trade wouldn't make much sense.

[Alderaan]

Moss is right, you guys are nuts.

Having seen every game Escobar has played tells you a lot about a player. I noticed it more when Heyward came up and was getting all the attention instead of Escobar and you could tell he didn't like it. Last year he had a great season and was the young gun on the team and he responded to that.

He craves attention and that's just not how Cox has ever run his teams. He has 2 rules: No music in the clubhouse and don't embarress the team. His lazy play, sometimes not hustling to get to balls, pissed off the vets and Cox.

The fact that A-Gon got a standing ovation when he arrived for his first team meeting tells you everything you need to know about what the clubhouse thought of Escobar.

I'm also sure Escobar is going to have a fantastic career and Toronto is lucky to have him, but he's not a player you want to count on for a playoff drive.

[Kyo]

Arod finally hit 600th homer, now he can get back to driving in runs.

[Cephius]

So what happened with Cano? He showed up one year with a new attitude?

No, its just that what we as fans perceive as laziness is often over-exaggerated. Let's face it, even if you have the talent level of Albert Pujols you just don't waltz into the major leagues. You have to put in a lot of work, you have to prepare, you have to study scouting reports, etc etc. If Escobar really was a lazy good-for-nothing, how did he get drafted? How did he get through the minor leagues? How did he stick on the Braves for as long as he did?

That's all I'm saying. Cano pissed people off with his lazy defense, his swing-at-everything approach at the plate, his perceived partying with Melky, all that stuff. He didn't change who he was going into this year, he just grew up as a player. Why can't Escobar do the same? I understand why the Braves traded him, but let's not act like he's 100% doomed to be a shitty player forever.

Shinzon I wasn't saying he's that type of player, obviously he doesn't have 30 HR power like Cano does. I was talking more in the vein that he could still mature into a very good player.

[archibaldcrane]

Lulz.

from BrewCrewBall:

Also, after Cub pitchers hit Brewers with pitches 13 times this season, LaTroy Hawkins grazed Alfonso Soriano's jersey with a fastball in the seventh (the second time a Brewer has hit a Cub) and both he and Ken Macha were ejected, despite the fact that no warnings had been issued and none of the Cubs who hit Brewers in the series were tossed. The state of umpiring in Major League Baseball is a terrible joke.

Brewers have been hit by 57 pitches, leading the majors. Weeks and Fielder are 1 and 2 in HBP totals. Gallardo leads all pitchers in getting hit by pitches (as well as in home runs...he has 4).

And it's our guys that get tossed. Hell, even the obvious suspension against the Braves reliever (who threw behind Prince and then hit him after a warning) got overturned.

It's pretty clear there are two sets of rules - one for opponents of the Brewers, and one for the Brewers themselves.

[*Shinzon*]

No, its just that what we as fans perceive as laziness is often over-exaggerated. Let's face it, even if you have the talent level of Albert Pujols you just don't waltz into the major leagues. You have to put in a lot of work, you have to prepare, you have to study scouting reports, etc etc. If Escobar really was a lazy good-for-nothing, how did he get drafted? How did he get through the minor leagues? How did he stick on the Braves for as long as he did?

That's all I'm saying. Cano pissed people off with his lazy defense, his swing-at-everything approach at the plate, his perceived partying with Melky, all that stuff. He didn't change who he was going into this year, he just grew up as a player. Why can't Escobar do the same? I understand why the Braves traded him, but let's not act like he's 100% doomed to be a shitty player forever.

Shinzon I wasn't saying he's that type of player, obviously he doesn't have 30 HR power like Cano does. I was talking more in the vein that he could still mature into a very good player.

Yah, I see what you're saying now, but I just don't think he is that kind of person or player. I think he's going to be one of those guys who will always have a huge ceiling and will never really reach it. He stuck with the braves because he was an investment really. He's the type of guy you can see has limitless talent but drives you nuts because he doesn't have the drive to reach it. That's all I was getting at. Cano had a lot of motivation on the Yanks, positive influences and he was liked. No body on the Braves like Escobar so it was inevitable at one time or another. D:

[Kyo]

No one cares about the brewers.

[Headspace]

Seriously, third/fourth place teams need to gtfo