I have returned: StarCraft II

[Kaylia]

Nuke is the best way to break stalemate in TvT if you have the ressource imo. You can do a lot of damage with them, but they are also very good at making your opponent panic.

[Falaras]

Actually Tank Viking has become almost non-existent in TvT. Since the Tank damage nerf it's become really vulnerable to a variety of different strategies. Marines are now very effective in the match up and really change the dynamic. Basically by making Tank Viking you are inviting your opponent to go Marine Thor and because marines are so cheap his Thor count will be close to your tank count.

Uh what? I haven't played a TvT that wasn't against Tank Viking in so long. You also should realize that Tank Viking isn't JUST those two units, you also dump minerals by making marauders which absolutely demolish Thors. Even after the tank nerf bio still is terrible against Tanks and going Marine Marauder is suicide, and Thors are nice but without tanks to shoot the marauders thors are just so easy to snipe.

[Bweigelt]

Uh what? I haven't played a TvT that wasn't against Tank Viking in so long. You also should realize that Tank Viking isn't JUST those two units, you also dump minerals by making marauders which absolutely demolish Thors. Even after the tank nerf bio still is terrible against Tanks and going Marine Marauder is suicide, and Thors are nice but without tanks to shoot the marauders thors are just so easy to snipe.

Marines tear through marauders even faster than tanks do. Watch some of the recent TvT's from top Terran players like Select, Fenix, and TLO and you'll see how effective Bio can be in TvT. There's a game from the IEM between Fenix and QXC (can't remember which game it was in the finals because I'm at work) where Fenix totally exploits QXC's Tank Viking build with a Bio army support. You still see a few Tank Viking battles, but that's mostly when it's cross positions on LT.

[Falaras]

Marines tear through marauders even faster than tanks do. Watch some of the recent TvT's from top Terran players like Select, Fenix, and TLO and you'll see how effective Bio can be in TvT. There's a game from the IEM between Fenix and QXC (can't remember which game it was in the finals because I'm at work) where Fenix totally exploits QXC's Tank Viking build with a Bio army support. You still see a few Tank Viking battles, but that's mostly when it's cross positions on LT.

The problem with marines is that they need to get in range of the marauders to tear through them, tanks just blow them up from afar. I'll try and watch that game though and see what they do.

[Thunder]

Tank/viking's still around. The GSL matches where TLO got eliminated were pretty much tank viking. But I've watched a lot of cool bio-centered armies. TLO does a pretty epic job with tankless mech +some bio support, too.

[Bweigelt]

Tank/viking's still around. The GSL matches where TLO got eliminated were pretty much tank viking. But I've watched a lot of cool bio-centered armies. TLO does a pretty epic job with tankless mech +some bio support, too.

That game was pre-patch. It's really only been the last couple weeks that the transition has been made.

[Bweigelt]

The problem with marines is that they need to get in range of the marauders to tear through them, tanks just blow them up from afar. I'll try and watch that game though and see what they do.

Yeah, the idea is you never need to engage into a mass tank line. You can use various drops and other things to force the opponents army to split up. Tanks by themselves are extremely vulnerable to Thors. Two dropships worth of marines in the back of an opponents base will force him to pretty much bring back all his marauders or move his tanks. Either way you can hit the front at the same time and you really don't have have to worry about the marines because you can reproduce them so fast. Because the opponent has tanks and vikings he won't have as many bio units and it makes it difficult to defend in multiple places at once.

[Thunder]

That game was pre-patch. It's really only been the last couple weeks that the transition has been made.

Ah.. you're right. Well then I haven't seen tank/viking in the pros since. They might pepper them in, but it's never like it used to be.

The NaDa/TLO game on blistering sands was pretty neat. NaDa gets a few tanks with bio and TLO demolishes them with a single thor, like 2scvs, and a handful of marines. It's really crazy how strong thors and marines are.

[Maguspk]

Patch 1.1.2 Now Live

General
• Players will no longer receive achievement toasts while their status is set to "Busy."
• The messaging when attempting to load a saved game or replay from a previous version has been clarified.
• Adjusted the amount of points earned and lost by random team participants to properly reflect the strength of a player's teammates.

Balance
• PROTOSS

o Buildings

• Nexus life and shields increased from 750/750 to 1000/1000.

o Void Ray

• Damage level 1 increased from 5 to 6 (+4 armored).

• Damage level 2 decreased from 10 (+15 armored) to 8 (+8 armored).

• Flux Vanes speed upgrade bonus decreased from 1.125 to 0.703.

• TERRAN

o Buildings

• Barracks requirement changed from Command Center to Supply Depot.

• Supply Depot life increased from 350 to 400.

o Medivac

• Acceleration reduced from 2.315 to 2.25.

• Speed reduced from 2.75 to 2.5.

o Reaper

• Nitro Packs speed upgrade now has a Factory Requirement.

o Thor

• Energy bar removed.

• 250mm Strike Cannons is now cooldown-based on a 50-second cooldown. Ability starts with cooldown available (useable immediately after upgrade is researched).

• ZERG

o Buildings

• Hatchery life increased from 1250 to 1500.

• Lair life increased from 1800 to 2000.

• Spawning Pool life increased from 750 to 1000.

• Spire life increased from 600 to 850.

• Ultralisk Cavern life increased from 600 to 850.

o Corruptor

• Energy bar removed.

• Corruption is now cooldown-based on a 45-second cooldown. Ability starts with cooldown expired (must wait for full 45-second cycle before usable).

o Infestor

• Fungal Growth now prevents Blink.

o Roach

• Range increased from 3 to 4.

Bug Fixes
• Fixed an issue where players could not cast the Feedback spell on Point Defense Drones.
• Fixed an issue where the Phoenix would continue to channel Graviton Beam after the target died.
• Fixed an issue that would cause Larvae to spawn and be hidden behind Zerg eggs.
• Fixed an issue where players were unable to navigate to the Single Player page or watch replays after canceling map downloads from the queue.
• Fixed a desync that could occur on user-created maps with custom mod dependencies.

Woo!

[Kaylia]

Holy crap, void ray were nerfed so badly lol. I can't imagine using them in any situation now.

I don't think reaper nerf was needed with increased building hp, roach range..etc It's too much ressource midgame and late game to go reaper.



In overall, while I do understand the point of certain change, it will force people to use a single build even more. I liked having to get ready for reaper, void ray, and countering other potential cheese people will throw at me.

[Bweigelt]

Holy crap, void ray were nerfed so badly lol. I can't imagine using them in any situation now.

I don't think reaper nerf was needed with increased building hp, roach range..etc It's too much ressource midgame and late game to go reaper.


In overall, while I do understand the point of certain change, it will force people to use a single build even more. I liked having to get ready for reaper, void ray, and countering other potential cheese people will throw at me.

Void rays will actually be somewhat more useful in the early game without being ridiculous like they were previously when charged up. I think this actually increases the effectiveness of an early Voidray stalker push, but hurts proxy voidrays.

I can't believe they got this stuff out there so fast. Also good to see them fixing the Phoenix bugs and making it so PDD can been hit by Feedback again.

[Not Kuno]

Interesting zerg changes. Roaches are going to be boss now. Maybe.

[synistar]

The thought of not being able to feedback thors (inb4 lolemp) might cause some hell. But it will make it reasonable to get the cannon upgrade finally. Same kinda goes to corrupters.

Sounds like they overtuned reapers now. I think it should be an either/or nerf, not both build time and the nitro pack tech up to t2. If they want to make reapers 1.5, make nitros build off the engineering bay, kinda like how stim and shells was off the academy in SC1.

I don't like the supply depot before rax change. If someone wants to take a massive risk with getting an early rax, well it's kinda of an all in or else im behind a bit strat.

[Rehn]

Liking zerg changes, but going wtf at reaper changes. Reaper seriously aren't a huge threat at plat or below leagues at all in 1v1 settings. Maybe it was targeted more due to their usage in multiplayers?...

Supply depot before barracks can be made is eh though. Just had a great read on bnet forums when some dumb terran just made a thread stating "well maybe zergs should be required to have overlord before they can make a spawning pool then." Just had to bust out laughing at that; can tell the guy is either trolling (which didn't look like it) or he doesn't play zerg.

[Bweigelt]

Liking zerg changes, but going wtf at reaper changes. Reaper seriously aren't a huge threat at plat or below leagues at all in 1v1 settings. Maybe it was targeted more due to their usage in multiplayers?...

Supply depot before barracks can be made is eh though. Just had a great read on bnet forums when some dumb terran just made a thread stating "well maybe zergs should be required to have overlord before they can make a spawning pool then." Just had to bust out laughing at that; can tell the guy is either trolling (which didn't look like it) or he doesn't play zerg.

People are just dumb when a new patch comes out. There was a post on team liquid with someone bitching that Corrupters got nerfed while Thor's got buffed and Thors would be unstoppable in TvZ now. Cause you know Corrupters and Thors didn't get the exact same change (a slight buff against P so they weren't useless) and Zerg's were totally Feedbacking Thors left and right in TvZ.

[Falaras]

As much as I dislike the barracks thing and don't really think the medivac changes where neccesary, the Thor change is awesome. The upgrade was pretty much worthless (I beleive TL found out it doesn't even increase the thors damage while using it) and the only units that are big enough to use it on + stunnable are colossus.

[Kaylia]

As much as I dislike the barracks thing and don't really think the medivac changes where neccesary, the Thor change is awesome. The upgrade was pretty much worthless (I beleive TL found out it doesn't even increase the thors damage while using it) and the only units that are big enough to use it on + stunnable are colossus.

I was actually curious if it was worthwhile on immortal. Is your ability going through the shield, and if you can stun them for a bit, it might help reducing their insane damage output vs thor.

[Falaras]

I was actually curious if it was worthwhile on immortal. Is your ability going through the shield, and if you can stun them for a bit, it might help reducing their insane damage output vs thor.

Could be interesting to see but considering immortals are pretty rare (hampter colossus production or consume gas needed for HT's) I doubt it will really matter.

[Misuicide]

Thors cannon 1 shots immortals, even when immortals are 3-3-3. I tested this a while back

[quannum]