I have returned: StarCraft II

[quannum]

psystarcraft does roach/neural parasite

[Falaras]

How do I counter mass thors as Zerg? I tried Ultras and they got rocked, a ton of hydras maybe? Or just micro some mind control?

Muta Roach works great now, Neural Parasite if you can micro it, Ultras may not be able to 1v1 a Thor but can be produced faster. Surprisingly Brood Lords hurt thors pretty bad too but considering how weak they are to vikings I wouldn't suggest it.

[geno]

If they are pure thor, just like under 5 mutas + a bunch of lings/roaches (or ling/ultra if you get to late game) can be pretty devestating. The thors tend to auto target the mutas, and attack pretty slowly, even though the mutas arent the damage at all in the situation.

[Aero]

Kuno iirc you were in the lower end of the ranking(gold?) Your problem might not be mass thors; but that you're just not making enough stuff.

[Sylvrdragon]

Kuno iirc you were in the lower end of the ranking(gold?) Your problem might not be mass thors; but that you're just not making enough stuff.

What he said. Anything below Diamond (and often even there), the answer is almost always "Tend to your macro". Just build all around useful units (a solid core like Roaches or Lings or Ultras, and use whatever you want for support), make Drones, Expand, and spend all of your money.

[Not Kuno]

Got in a bunch of fun 2v2s today. At 2 times both of my allies disconnected, in one I almost won a 1v2 where my partner rage quit out, and in the second one I managed to win. Fuck yeah opponents getting cocky and me being good with 2 bases. >=3

[Kaylia]

How do I counter mass thors as Zerg? I tried Ultras and they got rocked, a ton of hydras maybe? Or just micro some mind control?

Broodlords work great against thor. They take little damage, and the broodling usually fuck up the AI/block them. If there is a marine balls with them, infestor/baneling can clear that. Otherwise, a mixture of upgraded roach/ling/ultralisk usually do a decent job.

Stay away from mind control as much as you can, making it work is a feat of strength that is nearly impossible to accomplish unless you have awesome microing skills. Your infestor absolutely cant get killed during the mind control phase, and with thor one shotting them, its almost impossible

[Syntex]

Critical mass thor has no counter other then broodlords.

And I am working on my TvZ strategies but I'm also frustrated that crying for a change got zerg exactly what they wanted. We can wait to see if the update forces single styles but I am pretty convinced it will.

By your logic any time something is imbalanced its just others who are QQ'ing?

Changes were needed and terran is still the most perfected and tweaked race because of the campaign. They needed these changes and roaches really needed a range upgrade, reapers was more of a change for the players across the board and not specifically top level because speedy reapers could kill so many things and really made it hard for other players to deal with.

Zerg is still has a lot of issues that I hope heart of the swarm will fix but its too early to say specifically what needs changing. The roach change was definitely a step in the right direction but I am not sure what else should be done.

[Falaras]

Changes were needed and terran is still the most perfected and tweaked race because of the campaign. They needed these changes and roaches really needed a range upgrade, reapers was more of a change for the players across the board and not specifically top level because speedy reapers could kill so many things and really made it hard for other players to deal with.

Zerg is still has a lot of issues that I hope heart of the swarm will fix but its too early to say specifically what needs changing. The roach change was definitely a step in the right direction but I am not sure what else should be done.

To make reapers any good you need very nice micro and macro at the same time, Reaper play from low level players is just hilarious to see and so weak.

[Kaylia]

With roach range increased, they need to make hellion attack instant. Microing hellion make me rage every time

A+click
...wait
...wait
...wait
blue flame!


I don't understand the long charge up on it, it's the only unit that does that.

[Maguspk]

They increased the roach range to make things like roaches being kited less efficient, why would they buff the other end of the spectrum they're trying to fix? Microing the hellions in lots of cases is less efficient than just letting them auto because of that startup time. Now it's especially silly to try to kite roaches since by the time the shot is fired you take a hit from the roach. Great change in my opinion.

To make reapers any good you need very nice micro and macro at the same time, Reaper play from low level players is just hilarious to see and so weak.

Not really, when both sides are equally skilled even if the reaper player is neglecting their base so is the zerg player who is being forced to spend all of his 30 APM on dealing with the broken ass reaper harass. It definitely isn't something only a high level player can benefit from. Doesn't matter though because reapers are a thing of the past, thank god.

[Falaras]

They increased the roach range to make things like roaches being kited less efficient, why would they buff the other end of the spectrum they're trying to fix? Microing the hellions in lots of cases is less efficient than just letting them auto because of that startup time. Now it's especially silly to try to kite roaches since by the time the shot is fired you take a hit from the roach. Great change in my opinion.


Not really, when both sides are equally skilled even if the reaper player is neglecting their base so is the zerg player who is being forced to spend all of his 30 APM on dealing with the broken ass reaper harass. It definitely isn't something only a high level player can benefit from. Doesn't matter though because reapers are a thing of the past, thank god.

I would argue that to be untrue, fighting a zerg with speedlings (even on creep sometimes) takes a ridiculous amount of micro to keep those reapers alive while the zerg just has to do some easy zergling micro. Not to mention that you need to produce a lot more buildings/units than the zerg does (all he does is throw down 1 warren, wait for it to pop, a make a few roaches) while reapers require multiple barracks being tacked on to stay effective. But yes this does hardly matter considering reapers have more or less been removed from the game except for some bunker antics.

If that is the reason blizzard increased roach range I would be amazed, I think they just wanted to make them more useful outside of defending harass. Of course its a great change in your opinion considering you are a zerg, but now 2/3 of the terrans harass units have been demolished and without harass a zerg can just macro so hard that there is no competition.

[Kaylia]

They increased the roach range to make things like roaches being kited less efficient, why would they buff the other end of the spectrum they're trying to fix? Microing the hellions in lots of cases is less efficient than just letting them auto because of that startup time. Now it's especially silly to try to kite roaches since by the time the shot is fired you take a hit from the roach. Great change in my opinion.

You wouldnt be able to kite roach even if they were attacking instantly. Of course, it would make hellion stronger all around (not just against zerg), but that's not necessarily a bad thing, and it can be balanced with slightly lower damages input or w/e.


Anyway, nothing wrong with one unit being able to outmicro another. The game isn't fun when all you do is 1a.


[edit]

I dont understand why you want units like reapers out of the game. Defending against early pressure is one of the most thrilling things, and good terran made very exciting games (when you're the zerg) . If every aggressive build are put out of commission, everyone will macro for 20mins with slight mmm/mass stalker/roaches harass and nothing exciting will ever happen.

From your post, it sound like you don't want zerg to play defensively early game. Why is it bad? You get a huge bonus fighting on the creep (speed bonus, queen, spine), and that alone should always carry you long enough in the game to give you an opportunity to crush your opponent. If you want to play offensively right away, zerg is just not the race for you.

[Not Kuno]

How do you upload replays? Was wondering if I should upload my 2v1 from last night, would anyone want to see it? Maybe give some advice other than be better at playing protoss.

[Kurp]

You can find the replay files at Documents > Starcraft II > Accounts > Random numbers > More numbers/letters > Replays (Win 7 path). Then just find which one you want and upload it to Megaupload, Dropbox, etc., or one of many SC2 replay sites.

[Sylvrdragon]

http://www.sc2rc.com/

[Aero]

So as a Terran or even Toss, how do you deal with smart Muta harass. Theyre just to damn mobile to deal with. If I go Thors, they just never engage them and hit a different side of my base or expansion. If I go mass marine to have a little more mobility, they counter that with Roaches. Vikings in groups get torn by an equal amount of mutas. I just cant seem to beat Z if they go Muta/Roach now.

[Ferien]

So as a Terran or even Toss, how do you deal with smart Muta harass. Theyre just to damn mobile to deal with. If I go Thors, they just never engage them and hit a different side of my base or expansion. If I go mass marine to have a little more mobility, they counter that with Roaches. Vikings in groups get torn by an equal amount of mutas. I just cant seem to beat Z if they go Muta/Roach now.

MMM is still pretty damn effective.

[Misuicide]

2 Suicide ravens popping Hell seeker missile will take care of those muta

[Kaylia]

missile is so easy to dodge with muta thought. Unless they are looking away, it rarely works ;s