I have returned: StarCraft II

[Aero]

If I go mmm Ill usually have to either base trade, where the zerg will have the advantage because his mutas are in my base already. If I send Marauders and leave rines in base to deal with mutas; he pulls mutas off harass and hits my marauders as they march towards his main. At which point he can make enough lings/roaches to deal with my push and goes back into harass.

Once he hits 10+ mutas, Im basically contained to what ever expo's I currently have and eventually get out macroed either by harassment or outbased.

I just cant seem to figure out how to win. As of the update my only wins against Z have been by 2port bancheesing him(Which is still a 50/50 crapshoot).

[Falaras]

If I go mmm Ill usually have to either base trade, where the zerg will have the advantage because his mutas are in my base already. If I send Marauders and leave rines in base to deal with mutas; he pulls mutas off harass and hits my marauders as they march towards his main. At which point he can make enough lings/roaches to deal with my push and goes back into harass.

Once he hits 10+ mutas, Im basically contained to what ever expo's I currently have and eventually get out macroed either by harassment or outbased.

I just cant seem to figure out how to win. As of the update my only wins against Z have been by 2port bancheesing him(Which is still a 50/50 crapshoot).

The only way to deal with Mutas is to keep them from coming, sadly that isn't really possible now as harassment is easy to shut down with Roach Muta play and the threat of a Roach push up your ramp makes you have to stay with Barracks units instead of tech to Banshees or blue flame hellions.

[Maguspk]

Don't let them get mutas, be more aggressive, if they can get enough Mutas to pose a threat you did something wrong.

woo go zerg!

[Rehn]

What league are you generally playing against? As someone playing against plat over and over, turrets are pretty scary in numbers when I'm the one doing the muta harass. Usually 2 in a group in your mineral lines/weakest point in your base works well to keep them at bay. I don't generally try to take on turrets unless my muta count is way up there, so making turrets before setting up expo is a good idea.

Had a zvz today where he went FAST muta, obvious by like 5 spine crawlers in his base when I scouted >.> Just expanded, made 2 spore crawler in my main, 2 in my expo and it kept him from doing any efficient harassment, since each base is also backed by a queen. Just made my own muta and contained his ass until he was just scraping for resources then went in for the kill.

[Aero]

Don't let them get mutas, be more aggressive, if they can get enough Mutas to pose a threat you did something wrong.

woo go zerg!

Sadly easier said than done.

[Rhyis.]

I find 3 turrets will stop most muta harass dead in it's tracks. Just have your scvs repairing the turrets during the harass so they're close. For the rest of my base, I always have a few marines lying around anyway.

[Misuicide]

The best counter to cannon rushing faggots is you counter yourself with all your probe and 2 zs. make sure you save 400 minerals and build in there base when you kill him off. works like a charm, cause he can't do shit lol

[Kaylia]

^
I dont know, their probe count should be much higher than your. It sound very risky, unless you literally dont notice the rush until they are in your mineral line.¸

Zerg: I build 2 spine to stop the progress, and get a drone out to fast expand far away from my mine (especially if a gas is unreachable)
Terran: I build a bunker and put a reaper inside to stop the progres. If it's too late, I lift and move out to the closest expansion
Protoss: I build a forge asap away from the invading canons (using an existing pilon). I build 2 canon on my nexus to block the push. If it's too late, I mine 400 and move out, while pushing with one or two zealot (can kill 5-6 probes).

[Misuicide]

He had about 12 probe, i had 15 and 2 z, i won easily

[Not Kuno]

Whats the best way to use Infestors? I used to make a few of them and keep them around but now I don't really bother.

I played a game not long ago where the opponents had like 5 constantly spitting out shit and I'm wondering if I should keep a bunch around for defense at least.

[Falaras]

Whats the best way to use Infestors? I used to make a few of them and keep them around but now I don't really bother.

I played a game not long ago where the opponents had like 5 constantly spitting out shit and I'm wondering if I should keep a bunch around for defense at least.

Good for delaying pushes, amazing when used with Banelings and Ultralisks for the AoE damage, can mind control thors and turn a battle on its head. IdrA also used them against Mass Raven strategy by just spamming fungal growth, it took like eight to kill the ravens but they transitioned nice into his Ultralisk play.

[Kaylia]

It's still a risky all in. Against baddies, it might works, but the odd he has a canon up in his base, or that he has more worker than you is fairly high.

[Bweigelt]

I love how after this patch I see Zerg after Zerg that suck on the ladder only to go to their profile and see they've played the majority of their games as Terran. It happens just when I was really loving TvT too. Oddly enough they don't even take advantage of the patch anyway they just seem to try 1 base roach and baneling busts. Hell I had a guy go for a hatch first but then went all in with a baneling bust right after that and made no drones. He then proceeded to get owned because I got a Thor out and he had made like 15 drones. WTF. I'd really like to play all the good Zergs I was running into before the patch so I can actually get some real practice but it seems like all the idiots went from T to Z.

[tonyg]

I'm one of those, but not really because of the patch, but because I've seen what Fruitdealer did and said holy shit I gotta try zerg that looks so fun. At least I made it into late game and didn't get crushed right away by trying crappy cheeses or retarded tactics. I feel as if this race is a lot more for me, since the huge problem I had when I played T was my complete ineffectiveness to harass, whereas by simply winging zerg I've been harassing the shit out of my opponents and my only problem is really the lack of knowledge about strategies or rational builds lol. I had a lot of trouble building my army too, I've mostly been killed lategame sitting on 5k minerals with 4 bases up where the guy who killed me had only 2 bases but a huge army since I think I was too busy microing my mutalisks around than anything.

[Kaylia]

I agree, so many shitty zerg lately lol.

And the update made reaper stronger than ever. Everyone read tech lab as marauder, and when the mass reaper get in, they are not ready for it.

[Falaras]

I agree, so many shitty zerg lately lol.

And the update made reaper stronger than ever. Everyone read tech lab as marauder, and when the mass reaper get in, they are not ready for it.

Stupidity does not make a unit stronger, if he's massing Reapers you should know it.

[Maguspk]

Who'd have thought, the Terrans who played Terran because it was the flavor of the week have switched to Zerg now that IdrA went to MLG and won. Hilarious.

[Kaylia]

Stupidity does not make a unit stronger, if he's massing Reapers you should know it.

You can't scout terran early, and you have to play the odds at time. If you saw a fast tech lab before, the chance of reaper was much higher than it is now.

Who'd have thought, the Terrans who played Terran because it was the flavor of the week have switched to Zerg now that IdrA went to MLG and won. Hilarious.

Has nothing to do with idra winning. People changed after reading the patch up

[Falaras]

You can't scout terran early, and you have to play the odds at time. If you saw a fast tech lab before, the chance of reaper was much higher than it is now.

Why exactly can you not scout terrans early? I could see that being a problem with protoss but just running up the ramp with a probe to see what hes building works quite fine. With a 45 second build time, two Tech lab rax, and not building any defending units (bad idea) it would still take almost 4 minutes to hit the critical mass of reapers where they can actually do damage to a base before getting taken out by Roches/stalkers/Marauders/whatever. You would also have to do enough damage to warrant making all those reapers which would be pretty hard to do considering zerg almost always get Roaches/static D, Terran have marines and marauders, and protoss get Stalkers which all shut down reaper harass hard no matter how many you really have.

I've faced a few late-game reaper attacks since the patch and the most damage I've ever seen done by one was killing a tech lab because I was out at my expo with all my units.

[Kaylia]

Why exactly can you not scout terrans early? I could see that being a problem with protoss but just running up the ramp with a probe to see what hes building works quite fine. With a 45 second build time, two Tech lab rax, and not building any defending units (bad idea) it would still take almost 4 minutes to hit the critical mass of reapers where they can actually do damage to a base before getting taken out by Roches/stalkers/Marauders/whatever. You would also have to do enough damage to warrant making all those reapers which would be pretty hard to do considering zerg almost always get Roaches/static D, Terran have marines and marauders, and protoss get Stalkers which all shut down reaper harass hard no matter how many you really have.

I've faced a few late-game reaper attacks since the patch and the most damage I've ever seen done by one was killing a tech lab because I was out at my expo with all my units.

Because there is a big wall preventing you from seeing what's inside after the firt 2 minutes. If you go up my ramp, the only thing you will see is a marauder or marines (and it will probably die before you get to see what's inside the base). Overlord can scout on a smaller map, but overseer usually dont come until later.


Barrack -->factory is a pretty common build on terran. It's not like I've to dedicate myself exclusiverly to reaper, and can't evaluate the risk involved with my build after a scout. Once the factory is down, I can change to mech, go back to mass marauder+medivac (same tech as reaper), get fast banshee. Sure, reaper were delayed by 50sec (lost 2-3 reapers building a factory), but it doesnt change much after.