I have returned: StarCraft II

[Kaylia]

Marauders in a bunker versus 5 Roaches:
It takes 5 seconds for 5 roaches to kill a bunker, in 5 seconds the marauder will attack 4 times (3.33 but given marauder has a high range I'll say 4) which will do 100 damage not even killing 1 roach. Once the bunker is dead the roaches take 4 seconds per marauder while the 2 marauders will do 100 damage not even killing one roach in 4 seconds.
Roaches are cheaper, can be produced faster, same speed, do 4 less damage but have 20 more health, the only thing going bad for it is that it has 2 less range than a Marauder. I think people overestimate the Marauder, even versus armored it barely out damages a marine.

Log in, and lets fucking test it. Even if the bunker go down, its not like you cant micro them. Stay at the far end and hit the front roach only. There is also a supply blocking you that give marauder a huge advantage since they win the range battle. And try to micro your roach at a choke point, its not always easy.

If by any chance you manage to push that roach attack early, the zerg will be miles behind with no expansion, and no tech.


And to answer your other comment, If I see a ton unused larva, I will know he isnt going for drone, or he is totally uneficient.

[Falaras]

Log in, and lets fucking test it. Even if the bunker go down, its not like you cant micro them. Stay at the far end and hit the front roach only. There is also a supply blocking you that give marauder a huge advantage since they win the range battle. And try to micro your roach at a choke point, its not always easy.


And to answer your other comment, If I see a ton unused larva, I will know he isnt going for drone, or he is totally uneficient.

Roaches move at the exact same speed as a marauder, good luck microing it. Staying behind the wall would throw the FE we are talking about away unless its one of the few maps you can wall off the natural.
And unused larva could mean that his inject just popped...scans don't last long enough to make a good observation of what someone is doing by looking at his Larva.

[Kaylia]

Again, let me know when you can log in, and we will repeat this scenario as many times as you want. I will do a typical factory build, scout, and build the 2nd marauder after i see the warden. It's going to take 6 minutes twice or three times, and we will know if its stopable or not.

About the range there should be a soft spot where the marauder can hit the roach, and the roach wont be able to hit them back. If you're busy running forth and back 2min, the terran will bring some scv to repair, the terran will also get an healty supply of marauder very soon if you dont break in immediatly, unless he is going for fast banshee which isnt much better for your health.

[Falaras]

Again, let me know when you can log in, and we will repeat the map as many times as you want. I will do a typical factory build, scout, and build the 2nd marauder after i see the warden. It's going to take 6 minutes twice or three times, and we will know if its stopable or not.

I don't play zerg so that would hardly be fair.

[Not Kuno]

Oh I wanna play. :O

[Falaras]

Oh I wanna play. :O

I still think we should do a giant BG FFA.

[Not Kuno]

If we do it, I will totally join in (and lose cause I suck).

[Kaylia]

I don't play zerg so that would hardly be fair.

Dude, just build 6 roaches lol, it shouldnt be hard. Hell, I can do the zerg and let you do the factory if you want to be serious about the testing.


@Kuno
I'm online and bored if you want to do 2s or anything ;s


kaylin/444

[Not Kuno]

Ok I'll get on. I can test the roach thingy since a) I play zerg and b) I need to get better

[Falaras]

Dude, just build 6 roaches lol. It's not hard. I can do the zerg and let you do the factory if you want to be serious about the testing.
@Kuno
I'm online and bored if you want to do 2s or anything ;s
kaylin/444

I've literally never played zerg outside of getting it when I fuck around as random in bronze rated 3v3's like 2 months ago, I wouldn't even know what the best build order is to get roaches.

If we do it, I will totally join in (and lose cause I suck).

I kind of think that if we did it everyone would attack me anyways, so you could sit in your base and build up and steam roll everybody.

[Kaylia]

Just tested with kuno. All 6 roach died, bunker was still alive, and no possiblity at microing. He got there with 6 roach and 2 more otw right after.

[Bweigelt]

2 Marauders in a bunker versus 5 Roaches:
It takes 5 seconds for 5 roaches to kill a bunker, in 5 seconds the marauder will attack 4 times (3.33 but given marauder has a high range I'll say 4) which will do 100 damage not even killing 1 roach. Once the bunker is dead the roaches take 4 seconds per marauder while the 2 marauders will do 100 damage not even killing one roach in 4 seconds.
Roaches are cheaper, can be produced faster, same speed, do 4 less damage but have 20 more health, the only thing going bad for it is that it has 2 less range than a Marauder. I think people overestimate the Marauder, even versus armored it barely out damages a marine.


We are talking about FEing still right? Having a thor out in time to defend a FE against roaches? lol. Zerg has the lovely ability to hatch all their Roaches at once too, which means scouting it won't be the easiest thing. And a thor won't kill 5 Roaches without repairing or back up.

Yes I'm talking about FEing. If you FE you can still have a Thor out in time. You'll have 6 ish marines by that time to buy time and you can repair depots and the Thor. The have two CC's so you can replace lost SCV's very quickly and the Zerg is cutting drones if he goes for a roach push after FE. Again you can be broken by the roaches and have them all in your base but as soon as that Thor comes out it's game over for the Zerg as you can just mass repair the roaches and he's fucked. I've held off a 1 base roach push while FE'ing as well as baneling busts where they broke my front but the Thor saves the day and it's an easy win from there. Now I wouldn't suggest doing that build against a 1 basing zerg but it can be done so obviously you can hold off any pressure coming much later after a 14 hatch.

[Thulius]

Just tested with kuno. All 6 roach died, bunker was still alive, and no possiblity at microing. He got there with 6 roach and 2 more otw right after.

If you're interested in a couple more tests I'll be hopping online right now, Thulius.482. I mostly want to see what kind of difference a few lings in the mix will make.

[Anakron]

2 Marauders in a bunker versus 5 Roaches:
It takes 5 seconds for 5 roaches to kill a bunker, in 5 seconds the marauder will attack 4 times (3.33 but given marauder has a high range I'll say 4) which will do 100 damage not even killing 1 roach. Once the bunker is dead the roaches take 4 seconds per marauder while the 2 marauders will do 100 damage not even killing one roach in 4 seconds.
Roaches are cheaper, can be produced faster, same speed, do 4 less damage but have 20 more health, the only thing going bad for it is that it has 2 less range than a Marauder. I think people overestimate the Marauder, even versus armored it barely out damages a marine.

How are you doing the math?

(Using tooltip times here)

Roaches do 16 damage every 2s. 5 roaches therefore output 80 damage every 2s. With 400 HP bunkers, it would take 5+ volleys because of 1 armor on bunkers. Let's use 10.5 seconds for simplicity.

Marauders do 20 damage every 1.5s. 2 marauders output 40 damage every 1.5s, 120 in 4.5s, and 240 in 9s, and 280 in 10.5. That's nearly 2 roaches.

Given a range 7 for marauders in bunkers, and that the roaches need to fan out against the bunker (unless you spread them before moving in), you'll have 2 roaches dead, and a 3rd about halfway dead or more, before the bunker goes down.

I am a little surprised that the bunker never went down vs. 6 roaches, though. Was there repairing, conc. shells, or stim involved?

[Falaras]

How are you doing the math?

(Using tooltip times here)

Roaches do 16 damage every 2s. 5 roaches therefore output 80 damage every 2s. With 400 HP bunkers, it would take 5+ volleys because of 1 armor on bunkers. Let's use 10.5 seconds for simplicity.

Marauders do 20 damage every 1.5s. 2 marauders output 40 damage every 1.5s, 120 in 4.5s, and 240 in 9s, and 280 in 10.5. That's nearly 2 roaches.

Given a range 7 for marauders in bunkers, and that the roaches need to fan out against the bunker (unless you spread them before moving in), you'll have 2 roaches dead, and a 3rd about halfway dead or more, before the bunker goes down.

I am a little surprised that the bunker never went down vs. 6 roaches, though. Was there repairing, conc. shells, or stim involved?

I ignored armor considering every unit involved has the same amount of armor, I didn't account for the fanning out though.

Just tested with kuno. All 6 roach died, bunker was still alive, and no possiblity at microing. He got there with 6 roach and 2 more otw right after.

That really should not have happened, did you pull a shit ton of SCVs or something? How many marauders?

[Kaylia]

I had 3 marauder, 2 in bunker. i put 2 scv on it since my scout saw the roach leave.

If you dont believe me, come try.

[Anakron]

Well, ok, if there are 3 marauders and 2 SCVs repairing, I can definitely see your outcome. I thought it was 2 marauders alone in bunker vs 6 roaches.

[Falaras]

Well, ok, if there are 3 marauders and 2 SCVs repairing, I can definitely see your outcome. I thought it was 2 marauders alone in bunker vs 6 roaches.

As did I.

[Kaylia]

Well, ok, if there are 3 marauders and 2 SCVs repairing, I can definitely see your outcome. I thought it was 2 marauders alone in bunker vs 6 roaches.

In a bunker up a cliff at a choke point, in the smallest map to give the zerg an advantage. The scv were not needed, but i brought them for safety after scouting the zerg movement like you should.

As did I.

No you did not. We are talking about a normal terran build. We arent talking about a bunker in the middle of nowhere filled with 2 marauder. Even in this scenario, you could probably do a lot of dmg.

[Falaras]

No you did not. We are talking about a normal terran build. We arent talking about a bunker in the middle of nowhere filled with 2 marauder. Even in this scenario, you could probably do a lot of dmg.

We where talking about securing a natural with a bunker of 1-2 marauders...