I have returned: StarCraft II

[geno]

Does zerg corrupter not work well for AtA attack? I mean, its a dedicated air to air unit. I haven't played a lot of games against zergs who used them (or when they did, I was pretty much dead to their broodlord force anyways because I went ground first). If so, its weird that they have such weak air-to-air fighters in SC2, even if their other utility (talking about the pheonix here) is still pretty strong.

[Kaylia]

Yeah, colossus take 8 slots in shuttle, I checked after my post.

The one time I tried corrupter, they got rapped by carrier before I could do anything worthwhile. The first impression was devourer without the splash debuff...so not that useful. I definitively need to try them more to know the deal with them.


Didn't they said they would add 1 new units each expansion? Or something like this? We might see a better AtA then.

[Misterjingles]

v6.1 of AI is out (link):

Editions:

StarCrack AI 6.1.1 Standard Edition
- AI doesn't cheat
StarCrack AI 6.1.1 AI Cheating Edition
- AI has a 2x harvest bonus and can see the whole map

Changelog:

6.1.1:
- "StarCrack AI V 6.1.1" message fixed regardless of loader.
- AI expansion code tweaked.

6.1:
- AI will attempt to counter air units. (First real reactive code)
- Expansioncode fixed, after taking out the AIs main he'll re-organise at adifferent location. He'll also rebuild expansions if they're destroyed.
- Major tweaks to make the AI alot more of a challenge.
- Chrono boost is in, thanks to Aeg1s for working this one out.
- Zerg will now build a queen for each expansion.
- Defence code has been improved, AI will defend bases depending on how much they're contributing to the economy.

Common beta key!

[Ramor]

you don't need a beta key, the beta was leaked >.>

can anyone suggest some half-decent protoss builds? i'm a bit lost without my goons to fall back on and i don't really like stalkers for early/mid-game all that much, and immortals are super expensive but they do just walk all over the other units, i do loves me some psi-storm though, and those little sentries

[Kaylia]

About the warpgate/gateway argument, I found some great microing to do (unless I'm missing something)


Summon 1 zealot
Change to gateway
Build 1 zealot 33sec
Change back to warpgate
Summon another zealot.

If you don't have enough energy to keep up chrono boost full time, otherwise, it's probably less trouble to just stack 5 zealot and keep chrono boost up.


You can pretty much build

[geno]

Its warpgate and gateway, not stargate. And yeah that doesn't seem worthwhile at all, lol.

[Kaylia]

Its warpgate and gateway, not stargate. And yeah that doesn't seem worthwhile at all, lol.

It is early when you want to build a zealot army and only have 1 nexus that can't chrono boost everything. It's not like it's hard to take care of this.


summon --> and build the rest with chrono boost give you one freebies zealot at the beginning of the chain. Rest of the time, you can buy zealot at the same rate you would build them, without using it (can use it on your nexus or upgrade instead)

[Korietsu]

Mac beta client out yet?

[Misterjingles]

you don't need a beta key, the beta was leaked >.>

can anyone suggest some half-decent protoss builds? i'm a bit lost without my goons to fall back on and i don't really like stalkers for early/mid-game all that much, and immortals are super expensive but they do just walk all over the other units, i do loves me some psi-storm though, and those little sentries

I know that... I just want to play people instead of this computer rabble rabble

[Korietsu]

If someone wouldn't mind PMing me info on how to get the leaked beta, i'd appreciate it =).

[GRT]

leaked beta? or you mean leaked beta client?

how can beta keys be leaked?

[Shuvo]

Is it just me or... is this new b.net way too competitive? I get like depressed if I lose a few games in a row cause my rank drops so much.. but if I win a few games in a row I get the biggest high ever O_o;

[Ramor]

leaked beta? or you mean leaked beta client?

how can beta keys be leaked?

leaked client, only AI computers to play against right now and it's hard as balls to find the correct files that all go together to get the leaked client install files because blizzard keeps having some taken down but not all of them, so it's a little difficult to find (or was for me)

interesting take on the zealots btw, the whole warpgate->gateway swap, definitely going to have to try that

[geno]

Is it just me or... is this new b.net way too competitive? I get like depressed if I lose a few games in a row cause my rank drops so much.. but if I win a few games in a row I get the biggest high ever O_o;

That's what they are going for right now, competition. I think that's one of the biggest things they are using this test for, the competitive element of the game, testing their ladder system and trying to get high-level player feedback on balance and other game elements. They pretty much know what the more casual players want so there is no need to test it. I think with SC2 release, you'll see a lot of that, including the huge expansive single player campaign, the other challenge game mode thingy, an expanded custom game interface, more social options, and everything else that slows down the pace of the game a bit.

[Ramor]

i hope someone makes a Level Up Bound as soon as the map comes out, complete with zerglings and corny explosion all around, that is my one sincere wish for this game's release.

[Rivero]

Man this game is kind of intense for someone who's never tried Starcraft before. Any recommendations on what race to start out as? I tried playing a match with Protoss and I only won cause my army of Zealots was bigger than the other guys Roach Army. Is there an ideal number of drones per minerals/gas? I usually put 2 on each Gas Node and about 11-12 for the Minerals.

[Ramor]

3 per each gas is the max output you'll get from each vespene node at a time, i believe this now also applies to what are known as your "natural expansions" (the expansions right next to your base)

for minerals i'm not really sure, it depends on what map and how many mineral nodes there are.

one of the biggest things i can tell you to learn are hotkeys, being able to do 1->c->2->b->z to make a chrono boosted zealot is wayyy better than trying to click it all out on your mouse, by '1' and '2' i'm just referring to control groups that you've made (click on a group of units or structures and press ctrl+#, then you only have to hit the # you assigned to select all of them again), control groups are also very helpful

just learn the tech trees and look at what counters what, the tech tree pulldown in the SC2 menu is surprisingly well laid out and helpful, especially the units section which gives you a relatively detailed description and general usage of each unit

starter race would be terran if you're looking for a real easy startup with minimal learning curve, protoss requires a lot more resource management and zerg i just have no idea what to do anymore with the loss of hydralisks being a tier 1 unit, especially with their quees and whatnot

i'd mostly suggest picking a race you think you'd like and sticking with them for a while because they all play a lot differently on the micro level, sure they all harvest minerals and gas and build units but that's about all they have in common

[willriker]

Man this game is kind of intense for someone who's never tried Starcraft before. Any recommendations on what race to start out as? I tried playing a match with Protoss and I only won cause my army of Zealots was bigger than the other guys Roach Army. Is there an ideal number of drones per minerals/gas? I usually put 2 on each Gas Node and about 11-12 for the Minerals.

Optimum number of drones per mineral for SC1 might not be the same for SC2. So, i cannot really help with that, other than to say that in SC1 there was a limit to how many gatherers can mine a portion of mineral at the same time. Any more than that (+1 more so that it starts mining when the previous one is on the way back to the base), assigned to that peice of mineral is a waste.

As for Gas, in SC1, only one gatherer can be inside to get gas. How many gatherers you would want, to get the most amount of gas per unit time, depends on how far away the gas mine is from your base. You want enough gatherers on each gas mine to have only one gatherer waiting to enter the gas mine. This way when one leaves the mine, returning the gas to your base, the next gatherer is already standing at the gas mine, ready to enter. In SC1, if the gas mine was as close as possible to your base, 4 gatherers was great.

Of course, the real optimum number of gatherers depends on your strategy. If you are focusing on units that do not require gas, then you dont even need to invest that money in in building a gas mine. You can focus on minerals, building base unit production facilities and units. If you are going for a strategy which will consume a great deal of gas, you will need more than one mine, with maximum amount of gatherers at each mine.

Then the game gets even more in depth with your build order. Especialy in the begining moments of the game, where seconds can count. How many gatherers do you want to put in que, to be made? Should you save the money you would have spent putting that extra gatherer in que to save time building your first unit production facility? Do you start building once you are at 6 gatherers, 8, 10. What order do you prioritize your build with?

Players had this down to an art, depending on thier overall strategy, they had very specific build orders used to minimize the time before you could defend/attack. The build prders were based on the number of gatherers you have. It has been a while, but went something like this:

4 SCV = build 1 SCV with start money,
5 SCV = build 1 SCV once at 50 mineral
6 SCV = start Barracks, once back at 50 min build 7th SCV
7 SCV = goes to build supply depot, build another SCV
8 SCV = Gas mine/mineral (baracks should be almost done save money for Marines)

Thats just a rough idea, its not perfect as its been years since ive played. But i was really into it lol

PRO TIP: when you first start the game, and need to move gatherers to the minerals, make each one gather at a diferant mineral. It will improve your minerals/second at one of the most crucial times in the game. Continue this practice as you build more gatherers.

[Meian]

Feels a bit early to start Barracks then but this is the way I've been testing out from reading different strategies:

This is for early protection and not rushing, still needs work

10th SCV: Supply Depot
12: Barracks
14: Refinery
16: Second CC/Marines/Supply Depot block
19: Put another SCV on gas
22: And another SCV on gas (so 3 on one refinery); Engineering Bay + Oribital Fortress (M.U.L.Es)

Move completed CC into natural expansion and make Plantery Fortress while making a bunker on the corner of the ramp (Lost Temple) and one adjacent to it and the Plantery Fortress. Put additional Supply Depots in front of the bunkers/Plantery Fortress for banelings/zealots.

This is just for early on and works well if you are quick enough. I am not quite timed well however and tend to be behind on making the CC. Starting to think making Oribital Command would be better earlier for M.U.L.E's as they get 30 minerals each (if I remember correctly).


I'm not that good at teching as of yet though, only really learned how to survive rushes.

[Rivero]

I've been doing decently in my first few preliminaries. . I think I'm just getting opponents that are even worse than me which is pretty surprising. I'm 4-1 in Preliminaries. I decided to go Protoss since they looked easy enough and I'm usually doing Zealots/Stalkers and then I tech Immortals and maybe a Colossus if the game lasts long enough although the unit feels kind of weak and gets killed easily, am I using it wrong?

The only counter I've lost to what this weird harass with some Terran Helicopters, they'd drop in turrets and fly away before I can gun them down with Stalkers. I also lost a match to mass Void Rays which was surprising for me since I had a very diverse army just not enough anti-air before they took down my Immortals in seconds. What's a good anti-air unit aside from Stalker? Or am I just not making enough Stalkers lol.

Also I'm curious what priorities are. I usually crack open my opponents base and start working at it slowly taking out his houses/units first and then going for the buildings in production before making my way to his resource area. Should I just rush his workers after taking out his wall and units defending?