I have returned: StarCraft II

[Thunder]

I don't want them to remove units, that'd be silly. Add new units and balance the game to make shit more balanced.

While I somewhat agree that they should just leave what they plan on removing(my bets are on corruptor and reapers) the game will look better if ALL of the units available are being used on the regular. The game, after 3 expansions, could be a clusterfuck of units when only a core of 15-20 are ever used between all 3 races. Even the 2(maybe 3 with mothership and 4 with carriers) units cheapen the game by reaffirming doubts of a poorly balanced RTS.

It's better to simply remove units that aren't used often and are pretty much dead weight or have overlapping roles.

[LinktheDeme]

While I somewhat agree that they should just leave what they plan on removing(my bets are on corruptor and reapers) the game will look better if ALL of the units available are being used on the regular. The game, after 3 expansions, could be a clusterfuck of units when only a core of 15-20 are ever used between all 3 races. Even the 2(maybe 3 with mothership and 4 with carriers) units cheapen the game by reaffirming doubts of a poorly balanced RTS.

It's better to simply remove units that aren't used often and are pretty much dead weight or have overlapping roles.

no way corrupters would be removed with brood lords needing them and them being the main anti armored air unless they add scourges or something.

[Kaylia]

Did they say they would remove unit? That would be kinda lame...

[Julian]

Add scourge, make brood lords morph from mutas.

Not broken at all.

[Salodin]

Add scourge, make brood lords morph from mutas.

Not broken at all.

Better yet, scourge fuse into muta.

[geno]

While I somewhat agree that they should just leave what they plan on removing(my bets are on corruptor and reapers) the game will look better if ALL of the units available are being used on the regular. The game, after 3 expansions, could be a clusterfuck of units when only a core of 15-20 are ever used between all 3 races. Even the 2(maybe 3 with mothership and 4 with carriers) units cheapen the game by reaffirming doubts of a poorly balanced RTS.

It's better to simply remove units that aren't used often and are pretty much dead weight or have overlapping roles.

Yes this is my reasoning as well. Removing units on the face may seem lame, but when you are considering how many they are going to be adding over the course of HotS and Legacy, it would be a clusterfuck of underused or underutilized units. Having more units alone doesn't make the game more fun. Additionally, I want to make sure Blizzard doesn't fall in love with any of their own creations and is smart enough to realize when a unit just isn't as interesting or fun as it could be.

I must reiterate what I said before about balance vs design again. Removing units does not mean break the game. Obviously if they ended up removing a unit like the corrupter or other very specialized unit, they will have to either add another or change the function of current units to ensure the game still works. My thoughts are purely from a design standpoint, I'd love to see what units Blizzard just doesn't find interesting enough to retain compared to alternative choices.

[Salodin]

Eh, I'm of the opinion that they have enough creative genuises on their team to create new units that 'fit' into the game and don't need to remove other units to do it.

Lets face it, units like the carrier arent seen often because they arent balanced well, not because people just dont care to use them.

[geno]

Yeah, I love the carrier from a design standpoint. Personally, I'd love for them to balance it back into the game, because it is fucking awesome.

But I don't want 25-30+ units per race at legacy. Creatively, it could work with a lot of unique rolls for different units. But every unit added is another 50+ unit to unit relationships that need to be managed and balanced. At a certain point, it gets unruly. I want SC2 to be a long-term focused game, not one that is fun for a little while and then gets boring because it is not as well balanced as it could be.

When it comes to balance, less is always more. The fewer the options, the easier it will be to have a balanced game. Too few options could be boring and uninteresting (one strategy to rule them all). But there is a sweet spot between the two extremes imo, and I think Brood War was probably right in it at about the 12-17 unit range. SC2 still has some room for growth (especially zerg imo), but too many units and I feel like the pro-scene will suffer.

[Serra]

How many units did Brood War add per race? Wasn't it just like 2-3? If they keep it low like that, it shouldn't become too overwhelming. And with the single player campaigns, they can show off their creativity and give players tons of units (like all the terran units in WoL).

As much as I love more units, I hadn't thought about it in terms of relationships. Originally I imagined they would eventually add in all the units for the WoL campaign by the end, but thinking of all the relationships they'd have to accommodate for, that'd be pretty ridiculous.

[LinktheDeme]

add new units for terran, still mass rines

someone should make that into a meme <_<

[geno]

Yeah BW added 2-3. But to put that into perspective, those additions did this:

Terran had 12 units (not including SCV) in Brood War. They already have 12 units in SC2.
Protoss had 13 units (not including probe). They have 14 in SC2.
Zerg is a little different. Without worker/larvae, they had 12, but that also included overlords. They have 12 in SC2 also, with overlords AND overseers included, so I'd say they were the only race with fewer functional units in the sequel.

That's BW vs SC2:WoL. There are still 2 expansions to go, and that can add up to a lot if they are overzealous adding without taking anything away.

[Deftscythe]

They could just give each race one new unit per expansion. I'd be fine with that.

[Kaylia]

1 unit, 1 upgrade is probably what they will aim for...I think the game still have enough room available, especially for specialist unit

[Dmitry]

I'd like them to add more for more variety. It sucks that they have all those units that don't get used from the campaign, but it's not like other races have campaign specific units at the moment. Maybe once LotV is released, they'll add campaign units for all races.

[Gredival]

I don't miss very many old BW units from the campaign. Firebats are nice but Maruders are definitely the better end of the deal there with how armor damage works in SC2 and I feel the tanks already offer the best splash in the game Wraith harassment is fulfilled by Banshees and done better, anti-capital air is fulfilled by Vikings. There are distinct advantages to Medivacs over Medics, especially with the addition of the Collosus.

What I really miss from all races is heavy splash anti-air -- the Corsair, Valkyrie, and Scourge. I also think that Disruption Web would be one of the best tools to help rebalance PvT

[Not Kuno]

Disruption Web was imba. Valkyrie is kind of useless now due to viking, but that splash damage was just sickening. Especially with each upgrade. Units I missed the most? Arbiter and Defiler. Also the ever popular shield battery.

Actually, for zerg, I hope they add more anti air choices. Right now you have queens (only for defending, really, and people dont usually get more than 1/base), hydras (slow as fuck and squishy, needs lair), and muta/corruptor. I know you should be scouting and shit, but early air pushes vs me as zerg means pretty much gg for me.

[Deftscythe]

Yeah, I think Zerg's only tier 1 anti-air being queens is pretty shitty. I always liked Idra's idea of rebalancing hydras and roaches to swap spots in the tech tree.

[Salodin]

Roaches are fine, just need to scout moar. Half the balance in these units is scouting to make the right one at the right time.

[Not Kuno]

Roaches are fine, just need to scout moar. Half the balance in these units is scouting to make the right one at the right time.

You can't always scout everything. Plus T+P can always proxy a key building in the middle of nowhere, which is something Z can't really do but that's another issue.

[Anakron]

You can't always scout everything. Plus T+P can always proxy a key building in the middle of nowhere, which is something Z can't really do but that's another issue.

Well, the idea is that you scout their front to get an idea of what they have. In general, Protoss can't kill your scout until their Stalker comes out, so you can see if they went for an early 2nd gas. A couple minutes after that, poke up their ramp to get an idea of how much gas their units used. That should give you an idea of what they're going for (e.g. excessive zealots, not a lot of stalkers and sentries suggest DT or Stargate tech).

Though admittedly, that's a slightly more advanced technique, and one that requires a lot of practice.