I have returned: StarCraft II

[Julian]

So they rush dts, have no real tech or infrastructure other then that, and as a zerg im supposed to be worried?

Let them rush dts, ill shut it down like normal and now hes behind while i either expand again or get free spire up with little to no contest to put me ahead in the match. Still not seeing a problem =(.

DT expand is a pretty common build. You don't need to rush DTs and skip on everything else to use DTs effectively. They're going to act like hellions, in that they'll sit outside your creep, and not let you move out/expand/spreadcreep until you get mobile detection. I guess you can leapfrop spores to try to spread your creep, but it's still silly.

Also, getting early spire in zvp isn't very standard, you usually don't get it until you need corruptors. Mutaling is somewhat viable, but not really common.

[Bweigelt]

DT expand is a pretty common build. You don't need to rush DTs and skip on everything else to use DTs effectively. They're going to act like hellions, in that they'll sit outside your creep, and not let you move out/expand/spreadcreep until you get mobile detection. I guess you can leapfrop spores to try to spread your creep, but it's still silly.

Also, getting early spire in zvp isn't very standard, you usually don't get it until you need corruptors. Mutaling is somewhat viable, but not really common.

DT's don't come out until much later than hellions so it's not like you can't have a good creep spread going by the time they get there. Like two spores can defend a main + natural against DT harass with another for the third. No matter how he goes DT's he's going to be behind unless he deals a lot of damage. Hell most of the time you defend against DT's right now is with spores so not much is changing.

EDIT: Kennigit says you get the viper at lair tech anyway, so this whole argument is null and void.

[Salodin]

And that can very well change based on how good the new air unit is. we cant discuss old pvz harass with out taking into account new zerg units.

Edit: very well then, lair tech and done. Zerg made out like bandits, but ill wait till i play beta to qq some more.

[Thunder]

so i'm confused why is protoss getting another anti air light unit when protoss already has the phoenix for mutas?

I'm not sure it's anti light air. The picture in-game just says anti mass air. The leaked photos talk about anti light air. Don't know which is right - picture from in game or the leaked info. Or the description given in game is missing the anti light air part.

Anti light air on a capital ship is pretty stupid so I really doubt it gets bonus damage vs light

[Bweigelt]

I'm not sure it's anti light air. The picture in-game just says anti mass air. The leaked photos talk about anti light air. Don't know which is right - picture from in game or the leaked info. Or the description given in game is missing the anti light air part.

Anti light air on a capital ship is pretty stupid so I really doubt it gets bonus damage vs light

Yeah it's not anti-light air, it's AOE air.

[Kuishen]

Trailer shows two of them taking on like 10-12 mutas. Doesn't show the outcome but it was the showcase part for that unit so I assume it can take them on.

[Gredival]

Yeah it's not anti-light air, it's AOE air.

The screenshot with a description said that it was AOE and anti-light, but the build screen didn't say anything about specifically anti-light.

[Salodin]

Are medivacs light or armored?

[Bweigelt]

Are medivacs light or armored?

Armored.

Also MVP and Nestea are going to be at the next MLG.

[Agito]

http://us.battle.net/blizzcon/en/blo...0_21_2011#blog

Terrans
Issues and weaknesses
Thor is too slow and clumsy
Race has difficulties in handling mass zealots in late game
New units and abilities
New "battle mode" for hellion - transforms like a viking
Battle mode hellion has more hit points, moves more slowly
Shorter, wider arc on flame attack, and stronger
Gives terran a beefy front-line fighter in the late game
Warhound
Smaller, more nimble version of Thor
Effective anti-mech ground weapon to help break siege tank lines
Anti-air attack with splash damage
Shredder
Robot that emits channeled, area of effect damage when immobilized
Damage automatically shuts off when an ally moves into range
Gives terran cheap zone control, but can't be used near main army
Is still very work-in-progress
Thor
Moved to late game, more hit points and damage
Can only have one, like mothership from Wings of Liberty

Zerg
Issues and weaknesses
Mid-game difficulties with siege and controlling areas
Missed opportunities with certain units like ultralisk and corruptor
New units and abilities
Ultralisk
Existing version is bulky and has difficulties engaging in battle
New burrow charge ability lets it dive underground and get into the fight easily
Viper
New caster unit with detection -- replaces overseer
Has abilities like blinding cloud to help break entrenched positions
Abduct ability allows it to pull units to itself -- pull siege tanks or colossus out of death balls
Swarm host
Zerg artillery for map control and siege
Burrows into the ground, and continuously generates small creatures to attack
Feels very zerg-y

Protoss
Issues and weaknesses
Needs more raiding options
Needs area of effect, anti-air attacks
New units and abilities
Tempest
New protoss capital ship, replaces carrier
Anti-air splash damage for mutalisks and other aircraft
Has direct air-to-ground attack as well that isn't splash
Replicant
Special unit that can clone itself into any non-massive unit
Allows protoss to also take siege tanks or infestors from enemies
Is very expensive
Still very much a work-in-progress, not-final unit
Oracle
Caster unit used for raiding and harassment
Can disable enemy structures, or prevent miningwith its abilities
Doesn't actually kill or damage anything
Mothership is cut in favor of this unit

There were some other adjustments and additions in multiplayer Heart of the Swarm. Some of the more interesting changes include the reaper gaining the ability to quickly regenerate health when out of combat, though its building attack has been removed. Battlecruisers will also get a new cooldown-based ability for a speed boost.

On the zerg side, banelings will be able to move while underground, through a late-game upgrade, while hydralisks will get a speed upgrade for off-creep movement. Corruptors will also have a new channeled ability called siphon. Siphoned buildings take damage over time, while the zerg player gains minerals as the building is being damaged.

Finally for the protoss, two new abilities have been added to the nexus. One is a mass recall, allowing protoss players to quickly return armies home, while the other is a defensive ability that temporarily gives any structure additional shield and building armor, as well as a weapon similar to a photon cannon.

[Gredival]

Mass Zealot an issue for Terran? Really?

[Salodin]

I don't know what game they're watching where mass zealots won it for a toss...

[Eanae]

Obviously you guys didn't watch WCG korea. Hero used mass zealot and completely tore terrans to shreds.

Edit: I've also used mass zealot in 2v2 and managed to solo 2 terran's worth of marines and siege tanks. Charge zealots are very very strong, and with armor upgrades and under sentry's shield, they're near impossible to kill.

[stewie]

Zealots are only good vs bad T that go more marauders than marines.

[Bweigelt]

Zealots are only good vs bad T that go more marauders than marines.

???

3/3 zealots with guardian shield up absolutely shred marines.

[Deejay]

Wow, I am horrible at this game. I'm realizing that micro is something that I'm just not good at with Protoss.

I usually try to set up my army with 3-4 Zealots and Stalkers, then I go for 2-3 Sentry's but I fail at positioning them properly. Stalkers always move a lot faster than everyone else so I can never seem to get them positioned behind my Zealots whenever I enter a battle. Usually what happens, is I'll see another army, hit attack. But then my Stalkers jump WAY ahead of my Zealots, and then start eating damage. Then I'll try to throw a shield wall out and half my zealots will get stuck behind, while my Stalkers take all the damage.

I am beyond bad.

How should I hotkey for Protoss? Should I just seperate the Zealots from the Sentry/Stalker, that way I can throw them into a forray first? Is there any place I can look to see what good Micro is supposed to look like with Protoss?

[Kaylia]

Wow, I am horrible at this game. I'm realizing that micro is something that I'm just not good at with Protoss.

I usually try to set up my army with 3-4 Zealots and Stalkers, then I go for 2-3 Sentry's but I fail at positioning them properly. Stalkers always move a lot faster than everyone else so I can never seem to get them positioned behind my Zealots whenever I enter a battle. Usually what happens, is I'll see another army, hit attack. But then my Stalkers jump WAY ahead of my Zealots, and then start eating damage. Then I'll try to throw a shield wall out and half my zealots will get stuck behind, while my Stalkers take all the damage.

I am beyond bad.

How should I hotkey for Protoss? Should I just seperate the Zealots from the Sentry/Stalker, that way I can throw them into a forray first? Is there any place I can look to see what good Micro is supposed to look like with Protoss?

This game has one hell of a learning curves. If you havent played over 100-200 games, it's normal to be bad.

Right now, I would recommend against sentries. That kind of unit are relatively hard to use properly, and I'm pretty certain there is other thing you have to worry about like macroing your base. Instead, try focusing on a single easy to use army (mass stalker with blink, collosus+zealot+stalker, roach+hydra...etc).

If you want to improve with sentries, there is a great trial map for this too. I forgot its name, but its in the protoss category and they give you a bunch of templar and sentries to fight off wave after wave. If you can get to 300 without saving and reloading, then you can try to build sentry in game.


Also, if you want to get better, you could play 2v2 with one of us. Could give you a few tip in game and fix some mistake. I'm on blue gartr channel if you want to try.

[Kaylia]

Uh, yeah, removing overseer is lame -_- especially requiring spire for detection. They should just make overlord detect, or give a lair research for it, but meh. I also assume that the detecting ability isn't going to be permanent, and will wear off, so you'll have to reapply it. (Maybe not? idk) I also assume vipers wont have consume or anything.

This ability sound a little like parasite from SC1. You could cast it on any critter, enemy unit or w/e, and you would get its vision until its dead (or healed by medivac). It would be kinda nice if it acted like that.

Also, I see baneling move while burrowed as a nerf, tbh. I personally already use baneling land mines, this is just going to make terrans stop being retarded and actually make ravens. Although I guess the new lurker w/e it's called is already going to force that. I guess if the baneling burrow move is hive, there's still a timing where baneling land mines can be effective.

Come on, you can't call that a nerf. Forcing terran (and protoss to a lesser extent) to get detector in every game is fucking awesome. It's going to be a huge hit in their economy.

Also, being able to run to run to mineral line with burrowed baneling is going to be great.

[Gredival]

I usually try to set up my army with 3-4 Zealots and Stalkers, then I go for 2-3 Sentry's but I fail at positioning them properly. Stalkers always move a lot faster than everyone else so I can never seem to get them positioned behind my Zealots whenever I enter a battle. Usually what happens, is I'll see another army, hit attack. But then my Stalkers jump WAY ahead of my Zealots, and then start eating damage. Then I'll try to throw a shield wall out and half my zealots will get stuck behind, while my Stalkers take all the damage.


How should I hotkey for Protoss? Should I just seperate the Zealots from the Sentry/Stalker, that way I can throw them into a forray first? Is there any place I can look to see what good Micro is supposed to look like with Protoss?

Keep in mind that Zealot usefulness is very dependent on Charge research. Once lings get Anabolic Boost it becomes very hard to utilize Zealots against them, and Marines start out with the mobility to kite Zealots and it will only get worse once Stim and Concussive Shells hit the field. That's the purpose of the Sentry to cut off retreat and force those weaker units to face your army head on. Unfortunately the skill ceiling to use Sentries correctly is far higher than it takes to research Anabolic Boost and do basic Marine kiting.

I'd just recommend just trying to get Charge out faster. If you don't want your army splitting up, when you select them have them all move to whatever spot and have all the Stalkers set to follow a rear Zealot so they don't go too far ahead.

As far as hotkeys, generally at the start I have Zealots/Stalkers on 1, and the Sentries on 2. When it gets later I put Collosi or HT keyed on 3. There may be a situation where you want to separate Stalkers/Zealots so you can offensively blink and focus fire (say, for Tanks) while the Zealots keep attacking whatever is there. But once I get HT or Collosi out, I just keep Stalkers and Zealots together because the Zealots are mainly there to be fodder for Storm/Lance splash so I can live with them trying to move somewhere dumbly when the Stalkers blink.

I've also used mass zealot in 2v2 and managed to solo 2 terran's worth of marines and siege tanks. Charge zealots are very very strong, and with armor upgrades and under sentry's shield, they're near impossible to kill.

Supply for supply and cost for cost, no doubt Zealots win in small numbers. But it's rarely that simple. Large numbers of Chargelots vs. large number of Marines has sort of the same issue like with what happens in Ultralisks vs. Hydralisks. After a certain point, the effectiveness of the ranged units increase in large numbers, especially if the surround or the terrain leaves any melee units unable to attack.

This is the basic reason Protoss need to incorporate splash when fighting bioballs and not just send a fuckton of Zealots

[Gredival]

MMA defeats MvP 4-1 to win GSL October Code S. Mvp was also doing the Blizzcon tournament at the same time so I don't know what role a heavier schedule may have played

Also IM teaming up with QxG. So now we have coL.MVP, Liquid`oGs, QxG.IM, and EG.SlayerS for Foreign+Korean practice houses.