I have returned: StarCraft II

[Julian]

2 new 2v2 maps, 1 new 3v3 map, and no new 4v4 maps, right?

I don't see any new 3v3 maps. Just 2 new 2v2 maps.

[Serra]

Is green acres an old map? I didn't play many 3v3 games last season, so maybe I just missed it..

[Deejay]

Or just make a death ball. Some zealots, stalkers, sentries, and colossus. If they went for heavy muta, throw in a few archons. If they went for heavy roaches, immortals can help, but colossus are generally all around better.

Yeah I usually go heavy Zealot in all matches, and unlock the +Shields so they can become better tanks. My problem is just getting enough of them out to stop early rushes. :/

Question for Protoss players:

I usally build 1 Pylon, Gate, Cybernetics, and then go Research Facility so I can send out an Observer and build Immortals. Then I build Pylons/Expand and throw down 3 more gates which usually finish with the end of my Warp Gate research.

Then I decide if I want to go for Stargate or upgrade my Collososs depending on what I see my opponent doing. I pretty much thought this was the perfect build but I'm noticing a lot of Protoss players throw down a Forge as their first building, followed by Cybernetics. I know it's smarter to start scouting with your probe, but teching (via Forge) so early kind of slows down your ability to make Stalkers/Sentries early in the match, wouldn't it?

[SubzeroDiabolos]

Obviously. The only reason to ever go forge first is

1- Cannon rush
2- Fast expand

[Deejay]

What is a cannon rush. Been playing this game 5 days now so idk the lingo

[Serra]

Cannon rushing is a cheese where you quickly get a probe into the enemy base and build a bunch of cannons and quickly expand to where they're damaging their base/resources. It's an early game strategy which relies on the enemy not noticing you slipping the probe in and then being able to cripple them before they can really develop anything to counter your cannons.

[SubzeroDiabolos]

[Lhyet]

Silver! Hurrah. Now to work towards Gold.

I'm happy to see Metalopolis in the pool now because I've seen it used in so many tournaments and it looks like a pretty fun and interesting map, and considering I only started last season I hadn't had the chance to try it yet.
Very happy to see Searing Crater and Typhoon Peaks gone. I really didn't like those.

[Kaylia]

Obviously. The only reason to ever go forge first is

1- Cannon rush
2- Fast expand

Against Zergs who fast expand, I found canon rush to be incredibly efficient a few months ago. As soon you scout the FE, build your forge , and you will be able to finish off 2 canon by the time its 2nd hatchery is completed (very short vision).

If your timing is perfect, you will start attacking right after it complete, locking him from his expand and killing his new hatchery. If he somehow see it come with an overlord and cancel, you can just cancel your own canon and lose almost nothing (same thing he did canceling the hatchery.


[edit]
I guess its technically not Forge first, since you will have a gateway by then.

[Julian]

Yeah I usually go heavy Zealot in all matches, and unlock the +Shields so they can become better tanks. My problem is just getting enough of them out to stop early rushes. :/

Question for Protoss players:

I usally build 1 Pylon, Gate, Cybernetics, and then go Research Facility so I can send out an Observer and build Immortals. Then I build Pylons/Expand and throw down 3 more gates which usually finish with the end of my Warp Gate research.

Then I decide if I want to go for Stargate or upgrade my Collososs depending on what I see my opponent doing. I pretty much thought this was the perfect build but I'm noticing a lot of Protoss players throw down a Forge as their first building, followed by Cybernetics. I know it's smarter to start scouting with your probe, but teching (via Forge) so early kind of slows down your ability to make Stalkers/Sentries early in the match, wouldn't it?

Uhhh

Shield upgrades aren't very good, just btw. They are very expensive compared to the other two, and only effect the shields (which regenerate anyway). The only time you really get shield upgrades is when you're really late in the game, and have no other upgrades left to get.

Attack upgrade is usually the way to go. If you have one attack upgrade up on the zerg's armor, you can 2 shot zerglings with zealots instead of 3. (+1 attack vs 0 armor, +2 vs +1 armor, +3 vs +2 armor)

[Julian]

Against Zergs who fast expand, I found canon rush to be incredibly efficient a few months ago. As soon you scout the FE, build your forge , and you will be able to finish off 2 canon by the time its 2nd hatchery is completed (very short vision).

If your timing is perfect, you will start attacking right after it complete, locking him from his expand and killing his new hatchery. If he somehow see it come with an overlord and cancel, you can just cancel your own canon and lose almost nothing (same thing he did canceling the hatchery.


[edit]
I guess its technically not Forge first, since you will have a gateway by then.

Also, this. This is why I almost never go hatch first vs protoss anymore.

[Deejay]

Hmm, so attack first! That helps. I usually only went for shield upgrade because my upgraded Collosuss usually mows everything down, so I wanted my Zealots up as long as possible so they can soak up the most incoming damage.

[Kaylia]

Hmm, so attack first! That helps. I usually only went for shield upgrade because my upgraded Collosuss usually mows everything down, so I wanted my Zealots up as long as possible so they can soak up the most incoming damage.

Many units like Zealots and collosus hit twice every attacks. Increasing your damage by 1 is going to increase each attacks individually, doubling the benefit.

You can find specific situation where increasing your damage by one level isn't going to change anything (especially when it involve 1 type of units versus another), but generally, with mixed army, different attack/defense level, healing and regen, going for an attack upgrade is going to let you to finish the fight faster and take less damage all around.

Ideally, you want to start upgrading everything as soon as you can (as long you're not at risk)

[SubzeroDiabolos]

So today in my placement 1v1 I decided to offrace for the first time on ladder as protoss, my main is T. I decided to cannon rush for shits and giggles against a silver terran. By the time I got to his base, he was walled off with 2 rax. I lost.. After the match he sent me text of penises such as _l_ and 8====D so I decided to take him on again as my main.... and I still lost.

I'm done with ladder.

[stewie]

Maybe I'll stop being lazy and play enough to get GM this season. tt

[Rehn]

Played any well known players lately?

[Anakron]

I usally build 1 Pylon, Gate, Cybernetics, and then go Research Facility so I can send out an Observer and build Immortals. Then I build Pylons/Expand and throw down 3 more gates which usually finish with the end of my Warp Gate research.

I haven't played 1v1 in a while, but I think that a 4-gate will kill you, if your warp gates don't finish until after your Robo + Nexus + 3 Gates finish. That's 600/100 (200/100 for Robo + 400 for Nexus) less they have to mine if they straight 4-gate.

[Gredival]

Many units like Zealots and collosus hit twice every attacks. Increasing your damage by 1 is going to increase each attacks individually, doubling the benefit.

Armor gets counted on each swing too though, so it's a double edged sword. Attack upgrades help double hit units against units that don't have base armor, but double hit units in general perform poorly against units with lots of base armor. That's the reason Zealots are so ineffective against Ultralisks and Pheonix are ineffective against Battlecruisers when their double attacks get reduced. The Collosus is an exception because it has splash.

But generally yes Protoss should get attack before armor, and shield would be after armor.

I haven't played 1v1 in a while, but I think that a 4-gate will kill you, if your warp gates don't finish until after your Robo + Nexus + 3 Gates finish. That's 600/100 (200/100 for Robo + 400 for Nexus) less they have to mine if they straight 4-gate.

Yeah, I can't see how you don't have a giant cache of minerals rotting between the Robo finishing and you tossing up the other three gates. If you are building enough probes, even if you went Cybercore as soon as Gateway was up, and Robo as soon as Core was done, you should still have lots of minerals in between to be building Gateways before the Robo finishes.

And with how late your units would hit the field in that build, if your opponent goes all-in or is any bit aggressive you are screwed anyway, I would just build the Nexus asap to maximize the economy advantage.

[Anakron]

Yeah, I can't see how you don't have a giant cache of minerals rotting between the Robo finishing and you tossing up the other three gates. If you are building enough probes, even if you went Cybercore as soon as Gateway was up, and Robo as soon as Core was done, you should still have lots of minerals in between to be building Gateways before the Robo finishes.

And with how late your units would hit the field in that build, if your opponent goes all-in or is any bit aggressive you are screwed anyway, I would just build the Nexus asap to maximize the economy advantage.

He's building a Nexus after a Robo, then tossing up 3 gates after that, so he wouldn't be sitting on too much money aside from waiting for 400. And that's what I'm saying will get him killed.

[Salodin]

You want an army regardless though. As toss youll lose way too many games if you wait to build an army as a reaction instead of being proactive with it.