I have returned: StarCraft II

[Isawa]

bump, any team games today?

I'll be playing later today, probably be on around 4:30 EST.

[Salodin]

2v2 any one?

[Misuicide]

I fucking miss SC2. God damnit i'm sure i'm like gold level skill now.

[Salodin]

Theres nothing wrong with gold =(

[Gredival]

Anything that starts with an M is good and you probably don't need anything else to win until Masters.

Then you just add in Tanks with your Marines, and you're good to win major titles :D

[Isawa]

Anyone for 2v2?

[SubzeroDiabolos]

Misuicide if it makes you feel better... You always were a gold to me.

[Not Kuno]

R16 GSL Code S spoilers

Spoiler: show

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http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xWdDvWVtlj...ing-naniwa.gif

[Salodin]

Team games today?

[Deftscythe]

[BadKarma]

[Drafted]

gsl

Spoiler: show

poor mc stupid coinflip matchup

[Gredival]

gsl

Spoiler: show

PvP is terrible, but those weren't coin flip victories. MC made some bad decisions and it was obvious Seed prepared much better. MC made some mind boggling decisions such as deciding to macro when he had Collosi on the field first and a delayed expansion.

It would be nice if PvP didn't come down to one huge engagement but don't hate Seed for playing to the match up's strengths while MC floundered. It seemed like he gave up after Seed got 3 wins.

[Drafted]

there's no matchup that has as many just plain build order losses than pvp.

[Salodin]

I feel like we've had less sc2 matches ever since this thread got hidden in the blizzard section =(

[Drafted]

my new song i listen to while stomping bubs

[Salodin]

New battle report out on day 9s youtube acc. It shows how tempest can be used to great effect. Now, even though protoss lost, I feel like that's cause battle hellions and warhounds are too damn strong and that protoss doesn't have a direct answer; seriously, toss needs to make a mechanical unit to kill a mechanical unit that does extra damage to mechanical. Who the fuck designed that shit? And then they have battle hellions as a meat shield, that do extra damage to light units, in a cone. Da fuck?

[geno]

As a protoss, here is my first impressions of 3 big new Protoss units:


I want preface this by saying that out that everything I write below is purely from a design perspective. In my mind, at this point no ability or spell is weak or strong, useless or overpowered, because it is way too early to matter and way too easy to adjust. All numbers can be changed to push any unit into and out of oblivion. With that said here are the main criteria I used:
A.) How fun is this unit/spell/ability to use? Can I micro with it, can I micro against it? How about if a pro gets their hands on it? Is it satisfying and powerful or tedious and rote? Etc.
B.) How does this unit/spell/ability affect the game from a spectator standpoint? Make for good games? Make for exciting, edge-of-seat moments?


Tempest:
Overall ranking: C-
Strategically interesting design, but in practice seems unwieldy and frustrating to use, defend, AND watch.
Full critique:

Spoiler: show

I really hate the Tempest. This may be a largely personal vendetta because it's meant to fill the role of the carrier, a unit I really really enjoyed conceptually that was never really given a chance. But still... I just don't like the unit.

I get the role they are trying to give it, but I just don't want it in the game. It does NOT look like a fun unit to use, with an incredibly slow attack, and infuriating need to keep vision out beyond the unit (at least terran's have scans for that situation with tanks when they forget to put a viking or building or whatever at the range limit to spot). It's at best a strategic unit, to force engagements and break up defensive positions... and that is just not what I wanted to see out of the protoss capital ship. That kind of role should be with the warp prism and the mothership (or preferably the arbiter, but I've accepted that that won't be making its return unfortunately).

The capital ship should be a god damn force to be reckon'd with, that can literally just outright win games when en masse without a counter prepared long beforehand. The carrier did that in BW, but never quite was able to in SC2. But instead of giving it a nice buff or design change to fit in, it was scrapped and the whole idea thrown away. Really the biggest tragedy for the Protoss race in terms of game design in Starcraft 2 imo.

Oracle:
Overall ranking: D+
It's harass is certainly a new idea, but it fails in pretty much every metric for me. The only reason it gets a + at all from me is it's cloak field which I still see as possibly being an interesting skill.
Full critique:

Spoiler: show

I'll start out saying that I do like it's cloak field. I can see that being a very interesting skill that can be used in a ton of situations, both offensively and defensively. With that out of the way, let me start up the hate-train on my least favorite Protoss ability: entomb minerals.

I have a lot of problems with the spell from a balance and player perspective, but I'm just going to jump to my biggest concern on the spectator front: Entomb harass is just not going to be an exciting part of the game to watch. Excitement is built on unpredictability. You never know whats going to happen with a good reaver or storm drop, the variance on those harass techniques was tremendous. They could kill all the workers at a mineral line (or in rare circumstances straight up end the game)... or they could do absolutely no damage at all. It's that unpredictability that will put a viewer at the edge of their seat.

The oracle fails that unpredictability requirement, and hard. The most you can hope for as an observer is to see whether or not the defender notices.. and it's just not the same thing. It's like watching to see if a player remembered to set their rally point correctly, or if they have an idle worker. Yeah, that's pretty great entertainment right there.

There is a big difference between seeing a player do something really impressive and seeing a player not do something really unimpressive. At their best, a good harass unit could make the offender look tyrannical or the defender look miraculous. At best the oracle will make the offender look robotic, or the defender look adequate.

Mothership Core:
Overall ranking: A+
Literally nothing I don't like about this unit from a design perspective. I can definitely see this becoming an integral part of the Protoss matchups.
Full critique:

Spoiler: show

Finally, the absolute saving grace for this critique, the mothership core! By far my favorite new protoss unit from a design perspective. So long as it can be balanced, I feel like it adds by far the most to the game for Protoss design.

Purify gives Protoss some MUCH needed improvements in their defender's advantage, especially in the PvP matchup. Cannons and forcefields are all well and good, but they do nothing to blink stalkers or colo rushes in PvP, particularly with proxy pylon warp-ins further compounding the problem. As a result, PvP has almost no good defensive/greedy builds like all the other matchups and thus has become incredibly stale.

Even in the other matchups though, I find Protoss has a really weak defenders advantage in the midgame after forcefields start to be circumvented easily (massive units, drops, nydus, air units, etc). Cannons just don't cut it, especially when compared to bunkers which can be loaded/unloaded/stimmed/salvaged or spore/spines which can be transfused and relocated at will. Purify I think will really help to bridge that gap between early defense with cannon/FF and late defense with mothership, defending storms, and army positioning.

Then there is recall. I know this skill has gotten a lot of flak for being pushed into the protoss arsenal so early, but I really really like it from a design perspective. I feel like it can just be balanced by making its energy requirements quite high and or having some kind of negative effect if it is used to compensate.

And what that balance will pay for is an amazing variety of gameplay being opened up for Protoss. People often think of recall as a get-out-of-jail free card, but I just don't see it being used that way once it becomes common place, especially at the high level. For instance, I don't forsee GSL players accidentally pushing too far and having to recall. They are going to be INTENTIONALLY pushing too far in order to put on pressure, or harass, or delay a timing, or whatever else they think of and then recall when their goal is accomplished. It will allow protoss to play pressure styles they've never been able to before in the midgame where before stim or fungals would shut down any movement that wasn't a main fight and end the game prematurely. This means more small skirmishes and NON game ending attacks all throughout the game, which will give more opportunities for good players and better games for spectators. Big win/win in my mind.

[Salodin]

Don't know why so many hate on the tempest, its quite literally a flying protoss tank. Conceptually, it can do exactly what we see siege tanks do, only it has more maneuverability in exchange for a weaker, slower attack, and more then double the cost.

I really hope they keep it, and just adjust it for balance (mainly just reduce the cost). All races now have a long range "siege" unit, they just really need to be tweaked.

[Salodin]

Stefano joined EG. What a fucking powerhouse...