I have returned: StarCraft II

[Kaylia]

Didnt the units decelerate in BW also? And, kaylia, how did you counter the pheonixes? Queens/spores?

2 spore, with my overlord and queen in between. Hydra worked well after for the counter.

They have to do some massive damages to make their phoenix worthwhile (150/100x 5), and since zerg have a ton of ground unit that are easy to masses, it's not that efficient if you can't do lot of damages on your first hit.

[Rivero]

No, this is auto-attacking while you issue move commands, it's essentially removing the attack command from having to be used. In BW you still needed to string the attack and move commands properly to achieve the effect, it was not automatic. This change is like perfect micro for dummies.

I see. I guess maybe they're trying to put some use for the Phoenix in the less skilled players? Either way it doesn't seem game-breaking to me.

[Kaylia]

They are stronger than before, but it come at the cost of -more- microing. They aren't easier to use.

If you're planning to take 3 minutes to kill 5 mutas with 1 phoenix , go for it, but it's 2 minutes of heavy microing. Like I said before, if you have no issue with reapers/hellion/viking, I don't see how phoenix is a problem since they are harder to micro. Keeping the perfect distance is much harder than attacking the nearest target and running with other units.

Also, the kiting only work against mutalisk (battlecruiser, carrier, viking, corruptor, and void ray all have longer range).

[Rivero]

They are stronger than before, but it come at the cost of -more- microing. They aren't easier to use.

If you're planning to take 3 minutes to kill 5 mutas with 1 phoenix , go for it, but it's 2 minutes of heavy microing. Like I said before, if you have no issue with reapers/hellion/viking, I don't see how phoenix is a problem since they are harder to micro. Keeping the perfect distance is much harder than attacking the nearest target and running with other units.

Also, the kiting only work against mutalisk (battlecruiser, carrier, viking, corruptor, and void ray all have longer range).

I haven't tried anything in the new patch either.

Looking at the patch notes I'm kind of disappointed they nerfed Colossus and they barely buffed the Ultralisk. It didn't seem like it needed more damage, just better mobility since it's slow as hell and it's job should be to soak damage, no?

[Kaylia]

Collosus were nerfed? They lowerered damage and increase the attack rate (laser come out pretty fast now). I've seen around 5 protoss today going mass collosus (7-8 ), and they absolutely obliterated zerg ground units. I didn't check the math, but I wouldnt be surprised if they are stronger now.

I havent seen ultralisk since the update, so I can't comment. Before the patch, I had a lot of of issue with them since they always ended up mind controlled/rapped by marauder/rapped by guardian. They do rape certain units, but it just never happen. I don't think much will change with the attack boost.

[Rivero]

Collosus were nerfed? They lowerered damage and increase the attack rate (laser come out pretty fast now). I've seen around 5 protoss today going mass collosus (7-8 ), and they absolutely obliterated zerg ground units. I didn't check the math, but I wouldnt be surprised if they are stronger now.

I havent seen ultralisk since the update, so I can't comment. Before the patch, I had a lot of of issue with them since they always ended up mind controlled/rapped by marauder/rapped by guardian. They do rape certain units, but it just never happen. I don't think much will change with the attack boost.

It's a shame too since there isn't much of an incentive to go for Hive Tech unless you want Broodlords. The speed is just atrocious I saw a livestream where Stalkers just kited an Ultralisk group with Blink and walked out without a scratch. I'm thinking maybe Infestors + Ultralisks might be necessary since you can immobilize them with the goo but I don't think a unit's effectiveness should have to depend entirely on other units.

[Kaylia]

Did they have the speed boost? It's not so bad with it usually, but I never tried them against stalker. Marine, zergling, tank, hydra, zealot, viking, that's what they are strong against, but it rarely happen (marauder fuck them up really bad, same deal with immortal)

Since they made infestor really good in the last update (work against air), we should see more Hives now. You have a good point about infestor too, it could help a lot against certain unit that can kite the ultralisk. Personally, I don't have issue with a unit needing another. It was the same deal in SC1 with defilers. You wouldnt go ground without them.


The biggest issue imo is how late they come and how much they cost. Cruisers and carrier don't have many counter, but ultralisk is a ground units weak to a ton of things. It's always a risky bet.

[Wulfgang]

Probably going to get flamed for this, but does anyone have a good link to intermediate / advanced general control tips and basic strategy? I played WC2 when I was much younger, single player only and frankly I was never very good and overused the mouse way too much.

Basically looking for grouping mechanics, suggested build orders, etc. Most of the SC2 forums I've seen are filled with non-beta people talking about their favorite units etc.

[Rivero]

Probably going to get flamed for this, but does anyone have a good link to intermediate / advanced general control tips and basic strategy? I played WC2 when I was much younger, single player only and frankly I was never very good and overused the mouse way too much.

Basically looking for grouping mechanics, suggested build orders, etc. Most of the SC2 forums I've seen are filled with non-beta people talking about their favorite units etc.

Maybe this might help? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Strategy Your question seems kind of broad, if you need certain race tips and builds/counters I can help. Not exactly sure what you mean by "basic strategy" though. .

[Kaylia]

Probably going to get flamed for this, but does anyone have a good link to intermediate / advanced general control tips and basic strategy? I played WC2 when I was much younger, single player only and frankly I was never very good and overused the mouse way too much.

Basically looking for grouping mechanics, suggested build orders, etc. Most of the SC2 forums I've seen are filled with non-beta people talking about their favorite units etc.

Why would you get flammed? ;s


For structures, a good idea is to macro them to Ctrl+8/9/0. This way, you can target your building with a singless key and build units, without moving the focus of your camera back to your base. It allow you to spend more time microing your army and keep your units production all the time, instead of sitting on a large amount of money. 0 --> s --> d to build a bunch of drones if your hatchery is saved to ctrl+0.


For units, uses ctrl1-7, depending of what you want. With zerg for example, I use ctrl 1 for the whole pack, then ctrl 2-4 for small baneling squad that can easily be microed individually.



For gameplay tips, just play, watch your replay (if needed) and figure out why you lost. It's hard to give you any tips since everything is situational, you have to see it by yourself once. Practice is key.

[Bweigelt]

For a newer player I think you can easily get away with using 4-6 for buildings. Even in platinum, I don't run into many situations where I need more than 1-3 for units. With the changes to hot keys blizzard has made most of the unit hotkeys are right under 4 and 5. Going from 5 to D and A for instance if you're Terran is a lot easier than from 8, 9, or 0.

The best way to get better though is through watching high level games. It can really help to give you a feel for the game. Pay attention to things like how they transition from the early game to the mid game, when they expand, and what unit compostions they use. Also head over to teamliquid.net and check out the Day[9] Daily thread and watch both his stream, and any recent VOD's. Just watching his stream and listening to his advice and his analysis of various high level replays can improve your game dramatically.

[Rivero]

Wtf. I win three games in a row as Gold 45-55.


Congrats! You've been moved to a new league. Silver (4th)

The fuck? lol

I actually kind of hate those Day9 dailies because for some reason I can't jump ahead in the video or it just freezes for me and he just goes on and on about his real life and it's sooo boring.

[Maguspk]

TL Invitational #2 tomorrow, going to be doing the entire tournament in one day should be pretty epic.

Also the last 2 games for the HDH Invitational will take place around the same time, can't decide what I want to watch. I just hope we get to see Nony v Idra that should be awesome. Also, the matchups are all best of 5 so it's really awesome, and the final will be a best of 7 so that should be pretty freaking epic when it rolls around.

[Kaylia]

For a newer player I think you can easily get away with using 4-6 for buildings. Even in platinum, I don't run into many situations where I need more than 1-3 for units. With the changes to hot keys blizzard has made most of the unit hotkeys are right under 4 and 5. Going from 5 to D and A for instance if you're Terran is a lot easier than from 8, 9, or 0.

The best way to get better though is through watching high level games. It can really help to give you a feel for the game. Pay attention to things like how they transition from the early game to the mid game, when they expand, and what unit compostions they use. Also head over to teamliquid.net and check out the Day[9] Daily thread and watch both his stream, and any recent VOD's. Just watching his stream and listening to his advice and his analysis of various high level replays can improve your game dramatically.

I just like having building on the right side and unit on left side. I find it easier to remember. I dont think anyone on this board will play at a level were it matter.

You need to play enough game before watching high level game, otherwise, what they are doing make little sense.

[Crizto]

Wtf. I win three games in a row as Gold 45-55.


Congrats! You've been moved to a new league. Silver (4th)

The fuck? lol

Haha that happened to me last night too lol

[Kaylia]

Wtf. I win three games in a row as Gold 45-55.


Congrats! You've been moved to a new league. Silver (4th)

The fuck? lol

Opposite happened a bunch of time too. I assume they move people when they have enough to fill 60% of a new divisision or something, which is why you end up getting moved at random time.

[Kaylia]

Am I the only one who have trouble closing starcraft program? When I click exit, the process lock and stay open (until I close it with the task manager). Not a huge issue, but it's annoying.



Also, nerf hydra range or something. Every single zerg I'm playing against is massing hydra lately. It's kinda boring, since it forces me to go with more hydra/cruiser/collosus every game against zerg.

Well, I'm not sure if it's really a nerf that is needed since I've no issue winning against that, but it's annoying how everyone use that.

[geno]

If they are mass hydra with very little roach, i think banelings absolutely destroy them for ZvZ. I dunno much about TvZ, but in PvZ storm WRECKS hydras so badly, even worse than colossus. I don't see a problem with hydras right now at all in my games.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

I just got a beta opt-in email saying I was invited but there was no key nor is starcraft on my "Manage Games" list on battle.net

Anyone else have this issue previously or currently?

[Gryffes]

Quite a few posts about it on teamliquid.

Dunno what the resolution was.