I have returned: StarCraft II

**Norellicus** · 2010-05-26 12:49

In my last match, I had a group of 10zealots+6stalkers ready to go for that purpose and they were wiped out as soon as I left my base by ~15 zerglings and 6~8 hydralisks that were burrowed just beyond the chokepoint

That was at least partly my fault, I didn't realize how many zerg units could burrow now and didn't have an observer up to go with them yet. But still, it's not like I dallied around...

I get concept ideas and basic execution but I always manage to lose control somehow about 15 minutes in. After that harassing force was wiped I was just beyond help, stayed behind the curve the whole time. Lost another assault group in almost the same fashion (wasn't an ambush though, in fact I technically got the drop on him), and then had a major force (20ish zealots, 10ish stalkers, 6 or so colossi) built up just in time to have his assault group come and wipe me out.

**Trocian** · 2010-05-26 12:59

Originally Posted by Salodin

The key really is to harass before they get that MMM ball

You can't harrass a competent Terran player before the MMM ball.

**Flarega** · 2010-05-26 13:09

As zerg, I will say that at least vs a terran, I feel like I have to play much better than him to win. Terran is probably the easiest race to just pick up and play. Zerg is really unfriendly for noobs.

**Correction** · 2010-05-26 13:20

Originally Posted by Flarega

As zerg, I will say that at least vs a terran, I feel like I have to play much better than him to win. Terran is probably the easiest race to just pick up and play. Zerg is really unfriendly for noobs.

This has been true since before Brood Wars, really. It's just amplified now with the addition of Queen micro and the other races having much stronger terrain control than before. Zerg have to work extra hard to get a positioning advantage on the ground.

**Rivero** · 2010-05-26 14:49

Originally Posted by Trocian

You can't harrass a competent Terran player before the MMM ball.

I have to agree with Trocian. A smart Terran can wall in with two or three tanks and take his bloody time.

**Syntex** · 2010-05-26 14:55

The 2 biggest things that new players do that will impact your game the most are not making enough workers and not spending your resources.

It seems like common sense but too many people thin 10 drones is enough when it ISN'T.

Make 3 probes per mineral patch and per gas, if you do this then when you expand just que up 10 from both bases and take 1/3rd from the main and move it over and you have a fully going expansion without having to wait for workers to be made.

Now the next one seems like common sense and it is but most people don't use it which is SPENDING YOUR MONEY. When you make enough workers you will find in small micro sessions your money is up to 2000+ sometimes depending on length of the fight, this is BAD. You never want to go above 200 minerals or gas, if you do your not spending fast enough.

If you have 2 gateways never que more then one at a time until its about to come out this way you don't have dead minerals invested in something that you could spend to something else. Example would be spending 800 minerals queing 5x zealots at 2 gateways, sure they will all be made but while 400 minerals per gateway is sitting there spent but not working for you, you could have made 2 pylons 2 gateways and qued 2 more zeals and now have 4 in progress instead of 2 with some on a wait list. Overqueing is dead money and good players never overque and always keep their money low, do this an you will start getting better fast. If for some reason your doing this and your supply is fine and your shit is always qued and your going over 200 then its time to make more buildings/upgrades/tech. This is what will seperate you from the n00bs.

Also if anyone has any questions about protoss either how to beat them or play as them feel free to ask, I am really good with them and can give you advice on how to beat them or you can 1v1 me if you want, even if your new to RTS I'll try and help :D

**Syntex** · 2010-05-26 15:52

Just got bumped up to gold league in 1v1, my new strats are boss :D

**Bweigelt** · 2010-05-26 16:34

Originally Posted by Rivero

I have to agree with Trocian. A smart Terran can wall in with two or three tanks and take his bloody time.

Any Terran trying to turtle on one base against Zerg is going to get steamrolled. Banelings and Infestors absolutely destroy a single base Terran Ball. It's the Terran who has to harass if he's going Bio. On the hand Terran mech is imbalanced versus zerg and they get a free harass with a Banshee if the do the 1 rax, 1 fact, 1 port opening.

**Rivero** · 2010-05-26 16:53

Originally Posted by Bweigelt

Any Terran trying to turtle on one base against Zerg is going to get steamrolled. Banelings and Infestors absolutely destroy a single base Terran Ball. It's the Terran who has to harass if he's going Bio. On the hand Terran mech is imbalanced versus zerg and they get a free harass with a Banshee if the do the 1 rax, 1 fact, 1 port opening.

With good tank placement Banelings won't even in range to scratch the Depots. Zerg hardly get Infestors especially when the chance of Terran going Thors/Battlecruisers are pretty slim. It's pretty tough to crack down a good Terran wall assuming he knows what he's doing and defends it properly. I've lost matches just because I took too long trying to assess a way into my opponent's turtled base and wound up losing from my opponent having higher tech.

You can try to expand as much as possible and hope your opponent decides to show his army unguarded but if he's smart he'll wait for an opportune moment and usually scan it out first.

**Misuicide** · 2010-05-26 17:25

Woo just placed 1v1 diamond. first 3 matches were cake walks, next 2 games i actually had to work for. I really should have lost my last match, but i guess my oponent got lazy and never once countered me. I'll say that Helions saved my ass. lol

PM me with your email, i'll be glad to add you. i'll respond with mine

**Salodin** · 2010-05-26 17:31

If Terran is turtling that much then all you need to do is out-macro him and deny him any expansions. Out number his army, either with air/immortals if he's going tanks, or mass stalker/sentry/colossus if otherwise.

If he walls, which most do, just punish him everytime he leaves his base. If he tries to leave his base with tank support, then that mean's he either has a small army otherwise, or enough game time has passed that you have another expansion, and an army that dwarfs his. Honestly, tanks are the least of my concerns as a toss player. This goes double when I do my 2v2s.

In my last match, I had a group of 10zealots+6stalkers ready to go for that purpose and they were wiped out as soon as I left my base by ~15 zerglings and 6~8 hydralisks that were burrowed just beyond the chokepoint

That was at least partly my fault, I didn't realize how many zerg units could burrow now and didn't have an observer up to go with them yet. But still, it's not like I dallied around...

I get concept ideas and basic execution but I always manage to lose control somehow about 15 minutes in. After that harassing force was wiped I was just beyond help, stayed behind the curve the whole time. Lost another assault group in almost the same fashion (wasn't an ambush though, in fact I technically got the drop on him), and then had a major force (20ish zealots, 10ish stalkers, 6 or so colossi) built up just in time to have his assault group come and wipe me out.

If you have that large of an army to try and 'harass', then you've already missed your opportunity. Those numbers are more like the numbers I use to attack a base early game after I've already harassed the hell out of his expo or mineral line with a small number of zealots. You need to leave earlier, either to scout his base with probe or 2-4 zealots (depending on how you're teching). Constantly put pressure, so long as you know you can win the fight or at least hurt his economy enough to make the effort worth it.

**Syntex** · 2010-05-26 17:34

Salodin quit alt-tabbing and talk to me ingame!

**Bweigelt** · 2010-05-26 18:15

Originally Posted by Rivero

With good tank placement Banelings won't even in range to scratch the Depots. Zerg hardly get Infestors especially when the chance of Terran going Thors/Battlecruisers are pretty slim. It's pretty tough to crack down a good Terran wall assuming he knows what he's doing and defends it properly. I've lost matches just because I took too long trying to assess a way into my opponent's turtled base and wound up losing from my opponent having higher tech.

You can try to expand as much as possible and hope your opponent decides to show his army unguarded but if he's smart he'll wait for an opportune moment and usually scan it out first.

Wait what? If a Zerg playing a Terran going M&M doesn't go for infestors, there is something wrong. Fungual Growth shits all over Marine and Marauders, especially when they've stimmed. And if you're being beat by a walled in Terran having higher Tech units than you aren't using Zerg's huge macro advantage. A 1 basing Terran only has enough resources to produce from 3 rax, or 1 rax, 1 fact, 1 port. If they are still at that point 10 minutes into the game against an FE zerg they've already lost. Even if they kill a zerg army it can be reproduced so fast. Also Banelings don't worry about tanks because they should be on the field well before Seige Tech is finished.

**euph** · 2010-05-26 18:27

anyone playing right now? Add me up [email protected] :D

**Salodin** · 2010-05-26 19:09

yeah im on with 2 others. lets see how many we can get.

**Ferien** · 2010-05-26 22:11

HDH Finals are up

**Syntex** · 2010-05-26 22:41

Need partner for 2's, anyone up?

**Syntex** · 2010-05-26 23:49

Games

Spoiler: show

My Comments

Spoiler: show

I find it very interesting how they play the early/mid game so differently and so much more aggressive then anyone I have come across that it allows them to force their opponent to stop teching to avoid death. Also the use of the supply and not the comstat is interesting twist on how to scout and use your CC differently, but I must ask isn't a MULE a better investment for money since it will get you 100+ minerals back in its lifespan and you could just build another depot?

**lilfoo** · 2010-05-27 00:46

Originally Posted by Syntex

Also the use of the supply and not the comstat is interesting twist on how to scout and use your CC differently, but I must ask isn't a MULE a better investment for money since it will get you 100+ minerals back in its lifespan and you could just build another depot?

You get the 100 minerals to get the CC faster and you don't loose a SCV to build the depot. makes sense.

**GRT** · 2010-05-27 00:46

i love that bangling play, i'm surprised i don't see it more often, i abuse it to hell all the time xD

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