I have returned: StarCraft II

[Ferien]

ALL GAMES ARE UP!!!! And I spoiler'd them accordingly so you wont know till the bottem of the spoiler ect. Its a spoiler train but that's the best way to do it I think.

LINK: http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showp...postcount=1101

Don't click if you didn't watch all the videos above...

Spoiler: show

I didn't think NonY had what it took to really turn this around but is use of templar's in game 6 along with VR's in games 5 and 7 really made a difference as TLO was caught off guard overall. I think the other games he lost when he was going phoenix harass could have been won if he popped out another stargate and when VR's rather then getting 8+ phoenix's

I am glad he won though! GO PROTOSS!!

Also one thing I did notice, and this pisses me off a lot, is that most, if not all of these games it seems that with next to no scouting/late scout that they tech anyways and if someone got a concentrated push of zealots/marines/zerglings that the other would fall doing the tech/FE in these games and its the main reason I am reluctant to do these strategies myself as the pub games I play 4 gate zealot push, 7 pool, and triple rax/walloff are common. I know you can scout and see 3 rax you know how to counter but at the same time if its something like Lost Temple where I get unlucky with the scouting before the wall off I am not sure what they are going and it throws me off having to wait for an observer when others have scan and overlords to scout a little faster.

Have you watched the finals yet? Some crazy-ass games there...

[Correction]

We still talking HDH finals here? Because

Spoiler: show

idrA ragequitting out of game 5

was fucking delicious.

[Salodin]

Stop workin out syntex god damn...

[Syntex]

Back, lets do some 1v1, I had my fill of 3v3 and 4v4 lag fest shenanigans with stupid strats and mining the map only to turn it into a resource war of attrition later on.

Well fuck did battle.net just go down or is it me?

[Maguspk]

We still talking HDH finals here? Because

Spoiler: show

idrA ragequitting out of game 5

was fucking delicious.

Very much so, I agree.

[Syntex]

Great, battle.net is doing some patch bullshit and I can't get on, its sitting at "connecting to battle.net check your internet" while I'm posting here and the 2 buttons I get is play offline or cancel.



EDIT: Now confirmed, "Down For Maintenance"

EDIT2: Its up

[Bweigelt]

We still talking HDH finals here? Because

Spoiler: show

idrA ragequitting out of game 5

was fucking delicious.

Spoiler: show

What's hilarious is that he's bitching about toss in what most people agree is the most balanced matchup. Even Artosis who is attached at the hip to Idra said he loves the state ZvP is currently at. The kid is just a terrible loser.

[lilfoo]

Also is it just me or is warp gate upgrade stupid? Sure you get your units instantly and its slightly quicker then normal gates but unless you need to warp in units across the map(rarely ever) or at an expansion you need to defend I find it to hinder my ability to play. Reasoning is that you can't que up while microing and you have to divert your attention to put them on the pylon grid which takes focus away from your army micro and will cost you units. The other issue is that since you can't que up units you have to use them literally as they come off cooldown which makes it so that if your not doing it that SECOND its actually slower then a normal gateway.

You never saw him do this in earlier matches? right b4 he was about to do a micro intensive push he flipped them to normal gateways and reinforced off normal gateways. the switch between the two only takes a second...

[Syntex]

You never saw him do this in earlier matches? right b4 he was about to do a micro intensive push he flipped them to normal gateways and reinforced off normal gateways. the switch between the two only takes a second...

I was thinking this but because the commentators are ALWAYS watching the micro battles and not the base at those times, I never caught it.

[Flarega]

Man I love lings so fucking much.

[Dezzimal]

Also is it just me or is warp gate upgrade stupid? Sure you get your units instantly and its slightly quicker then normal gates but unless you need to warp in units across the map(rarely ever) or at an expansion you need to defend I find it to hinder my ability to play. Reasoning is that you can't que up while microing and you have to divert your attention to put them on the pylon grid which takes focus away from your army micro and will cost you units. The other issue is that since you can't que up units you have to use them literally as they come off cooldown which makes it so that if your not doing it that SECOND its actually slower then a normal gateway.

Warpgates are a powerful tool that you need to learn how to use to be successful at protoss. Move out -> throw down a pylon outside your opponent's base, warp in a few more units there and then push.

[Syntex]

Warpgates are a powerful tool that you need to learn how to use to be successful at protoss. Move out -> throw down a pylon outside your opponent's base, warp in a few more units there and then push.

Yea I know but its when it comes to micro they are not that good. I know using them with a proxy pylon to keep pressure on is good but I never run out with a pylon and build one, need to work on that.

I am not saying its utterly useless, its still good but because I don't put a proxy pylon(hell even NonY didn't do this once in his matches) by the enemy and help reinforce and since its only good vs normal mode gates if your doing it nonstop and I can't with the micro of an attack, I'll stick without it.

The one time I did put it to good use is if I get a probe into the enemies base and cannon push or use the warp prism to reinforce into their base.

Overall I think its still worth getting because its such a cheap upgrade being at 50m/50g and I rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it.



And one other thing, HOW THE FUCK DO I POST ON BATTLE.NET FORUMS? This shit is pissing me off. It asks for account, pass, AND CD key. I register my copy of D2 and put in that CD key and it doesn't work, I look to check my E-mail for the SC2 beta CD key and didn't get one nor can I find it in my account management page and I keep getting "you cannot post here" error. How the fuck do I post on those forums?

EDIT: I mean the official battle.net forums not the beta one, I am in that already.

[Kaylia]

I just found my new favorite cheese with terran that seem to win every matches (platinum league atm). Ok, not "found" since people were doing it 2 months ago, but 7-8 upgraded reapers followed by marauder/bunker/turrets (to stop the counter) worked for me 6 games in a row. Early scout can't possibly tell what your getting since I generally make 2 marine before (while waiting for the gas), and most people will assume that marauder are comming (or banshee tech). Because most 1v1 map have ramp, going straigth to the command center is almost a guaranteed kill (worked against mass stalker, protoss static def, tank near entrance), and unless the other guy saw through it, by the time he moves his unit, his cc will be dead.

The closest I got to losing was a counter with a bunch of tank and a couple of viking to scan above ramp. It wasnt really close, but I did lose both my barrack and a few bunkers near entrance. By the time they were gone, I had enough tank to be safe.

[Syntex]

Reapers are strong and people underestimate their ability to rip buildings apart so early in the game.

A good protoss player could counter with a pylon/scout at the cliff face of his base where reapers could come in but even then 6+ reapers will kill whatever is there unless he has a lot then go straight to the nexus.

Don't forget to macro more units while on the harass and tech to hellions with a reactor since you might be low on gas.

[Kaylia]

Reapers are strong and people underestimate their ability to rip buildings apart so early in the game.

A good protoss player could counter with a pylon/scout at the cliff face of his base where reapers could come in but even then 6+ reapers will kill whatever is there unless he has a lot then go straight to the nexus.

Don't forget to macro more units while on the harass and tech to hellions with a reactor since you might be low on gas.

Even with a pilon, it's still pretty damn close from the main base in most map. By the time he moves his army, it's probably too late for him. The worst that could happen is accidently falling on a scout on the way (and the guys move all his heavy infantry next to his command center), but even then, reaper are still a strong units that can be reused lattre.

So far, I always went with marauder in bunker (in the events the game drag, I can always salvage them back) and tank as soon as I can. Most people will attempt a desperate attack after losing their CC, and marauder is by far the safest bet against most army. I generally have 8 defending my base by the time they reach me, which is more than enough to fight back almost anything. I also get engineering bay ready in case the other guys was attempting a quick void ray/banshee cheese.

The only thing I fear is massling/baneling with fast expand. Didnt happen yet, but it could fuck me up pretty bad.

[geno]

I think midgame 7-8 reaper base harass (as opposed to early 2-3 reaper worker harass) is one of the most underused and powerful tactics in the game. In a lot of ways, its as powerful as mutalisk harass was in BW, drawing its power from the extreme mobility that will piss off any opponent, if they push out too far and are unprepared, they can lose their nexus and be stuck all-in or at a severe disadvantage.

But like you said, it is also sort of a cheese, in that it depends on not being scouted. However, by the very nature of being a midgame tactic that involves reapers, it is extremely difficult to scout with a worker. It is also a fairly significant investment that will leave you short on defenses if the majority of the reapers are killed early without doing much damage. A 4gate blink stalker strat from protoss or midgame +1 speedling baneling break from zerg would be among the most devastating I'd imagine, particularly because both also have fairly adequate ways of dealing with a reaper backstab while pushing out at a strong timing (warping in stalkers, and constant speedling production).

On an unrelated note, I've been having a lot of fun with 3v3s. Just played one of the most intensely close games today, where we were pressured early on by a proxy+gate + early pool + mass marines and lost all our main bases. Each of us managed to hold on in different ways, me by cannoning up at the in-base high ground and teching to DTs while luring and wasting scans (god this was so intense, lol). The other two had hidden expos (one was a fast expand from zerg, other was the terrans main floated to the map corner). We managed to work our way back into the game with plenty of DT and muta harass, and eventually took it.

[Salodin]

That sounds like fun =( now I want to try it again. Syntex when you gettin home?

[Kaylia]

IBut like you said, it is also sort of a cheese, in that it depends on not being scouted. However, by the very nature of being a midgame tactic that involves reapers, it is extremely difficult to scout with a worker. It is also a fairly significant investment that will leave you short on defenses if the majority of the reapers are killed early without doing much damage. A 4gate blink stalker strat from protoss or midgame +1 speedling baneling break from zerg would be among the most devastating I'd imagine, particularly because both also have fairly adequate ways of dealing with a reaper backstab while pushing out at a strong timing (warping in stalkers, and constant speedling production).

Yeah, baneling/ling is what scare me the most. Against zerg, its a gamble pretty much, and I'm not sure how well it would work. Against terran and protoss, it seem to be a solid build that can carry you to the mid-game.

I've done it against mass stalker twice and won easily both time. I'm not sure how well a professional player would do in that situation, but on bnet, it doesnt seem to be a strong counter. Once you get 6-8 reapers, the protoss cant possibly have a huge army stalker army, and unless he is perfectly ready for it (or counter exactly at the same time you're attacking), he probably won't do much damage.

About being scouted, Terran does have a strong advantage early game. The worker shouldnt be able to see it (too early to figure out your plan, or entrance blocked), and air units come too late in most normal built. It's relatively easy to keep them away from the satelite scan as well. And again, that's for the surprise cheese, you still have your units if you get unlucky with the scouting.

[Syntex]

I am home now but I work at 4pm-10ish then going to movies to see Pince of Persia, after around midnight-1am I'll be on for a few hours.

As for the reapers I had someone from BG I 1v1'd last night do it to me and send 1 reaper the second he got it made and he met my stalker in my base and was only able to take out 2 probes before I got him.

If your using nonys tech strat as protoss then reaper harass will only work if you catch him rushing you or if his army is kinda far away.

Also after looking at TLO's terran build with a early CC with Barracks wall, I honestly think its the best early move for terran because the extra minerals it gives giving you 11 supply(when you would build a depot for 8 anyways) means it really costs only 300, that and when you upgrade it the ability to call down MULE's for more resources means over the next 5-10 minutes it will not only pay itself off but advance your econ more then if you didn't build it on top of having a harder wall to breakthrough and a CC ready for a FE or island expansion.

Rewatching NonY's BO he does the following.

9 Pylon
12 Gateway
13 Gas
16 Pylon
17 Core
19 2nd Gas
then followup with 2 gate and a RF

Build I am currently using and it can stop pretty much any rush.

[Salodin]

Now if instead of the reaper he went with marine rush, would he have won? Or was the stalker in response to a scout, seeing fast gas and tech lab?