I have returned: StarCraft II

[Crizto]

That trailer was godly D: argh this week shall be lame

[Sylvrdragon]

They are definitely going to need to do something about resource trading at some point in the future. I've had some pretty terrible and uninteresting games as a result from feeding in 2v2s and 3v3s.

Feeding strat only works if one of the defending players tries to tech instead of building units. 2v2 is a lot like 1v1 in that you always want to put on pressure. The Feed Team is limited to a 200 supply army while the Independent Team can field a 400 supply army if they manage to defend.

The only real advantage that the Feed Team has is that the army is likely to be higher on the tech tree and perhaps contain multiple techs. Or they can field a low-tier army about twice as big as a single player could otherwise get in that time. The Independent Team can field a similar size low-tier combined if they want to, but likely won't be able to afford as high of tech as fast as the Feed Team.

Showing 2 games where it worked is not "proof" that it's imbalanced. You really need a larger sample size to determine it.

[GRT]

well, it's 2 games played by four of the top SC2 players

the point is that with shared base entrance, good wall-off > good early pressure 99% of the time. The only way to have a chance at breaking it is by going EXTREME early rush, such as 7/9 rack or 6/9 pool, and if you fail that rush, you might as well gg because your economy just fell behind by about 2 million miles.

[GRT]

btw, the Feed strat specifically refers to terran mule feed and protoss wrap-in army, it's imba because mule's insane gathering rate and protoss's insane reinforcement rate, the food count doesn't really come into play

[geno]

btw, the Feed strat specifically refers to terran mule feed and protoss wrap-in army, it's imba because mule's insane gathering rate and protoss's insane reinforcement rate, the food count doesn't really come into play

It's effective for most races in different ways. Protoss can be a strong feeder if they only need to spend chrono boosts on probes, letting them get them out very quickly (so while they won't have Terran's mules, they will have more workers overall to make up for it in some areas). Zerg has a similar MO with using all their larvae on drones. All of the macro mechanics, when being utilized SOLELY for collecting resources, will net a huge advantage in a team feed game.

Protoss isn't the only strongly capable fed race either. Zerg are arguably more potent, because they can get surreal amounts of larvae off of a few hatcheries in base, allowing not the instant reinforcement that protoss has, but instead an instant complete army remake. Terran probably wouldn't benefit as much as Protoss and Zerg, but they could theoretically abuse the money for quick and heavy tech strats that can't be dealt with conventionally. Still I'd say Zerg and Protoss are the strongest when being fed.

[GRT]

eventually all three races even out, but mules not only gives an earlier econ boost, it also makes it so that the terran feeder doesn't have to spend much mineral building supply depots and SCVs, so i still say terran has the advantage as a feeder

[GRT]

and holy shit i just saw an epic early game matchup where White-ra's in-the-base proxy gateways got pushed back by a terran, holy shit the other guy's got some uber pro skillz

[geno]

Feeding strat only works if one of the defending players tries to tech instead of building units. 2v2 is a lot like 1v1 in that you always want to put on pressure. The Feed Team is limited to a 200 supply army while the Independent Team can field a 400 supply army if they manage to defend.

The only real advantage that the Feed Team has is that the army is likely to be higher on the tech tree and perhaps contain multiple techs. Or they can field a low-tier army about twice as big as a single player could otherwise get in that time. The Independent Team can field a similar size low-tier combined if they want to, but likely won't be able to afford as high of tech as fast as the Feed Team.

Showing 2 games where it worked is not "proof" that it's imbalanced. You really need a larger sample size to determine it.

Feeding is a terrible strategy for late game play (when army sizes matter), no one is going to argue that. The point is that it is very difficult, if not impossible to deal with when effectively utilized in the early game. It's goal is to shut down the other team before they can properly counter it. Even if the other team somehow predicts it and masses a tier1 army (which would be suicide if thee other team used a more standard defend & expand strategy), it is no guarantee that it will save them. First of all, they would have to share control and have one person handle the army if they want to match the micro capabilities of their opponent, which isn't always optimal in 2v2 / 3v3 settings. Second of all, it might not even make a difference if their army is strong enough together.

Consider a Terran + zerg team that feeds to the zerg so they can get twice as many mutalisks when the spire spawns. Trying to defend a mineral line is already a difficult task with mutas as mobile as they are, but it was beatable because their numbers weren't strong enough to go into a direct fight with one player's army. But with a fed zerg, they can. Now, the other player can send their tier1 army to help as well, but that leaves them open for the mutas to swing around and kill them.

edit: I know plenty about what works and what doesn't in 2v2 by the way. Me and my friend have been #1 in 2v2 Diamond league multiple times in the past as a PZ team. To be honest, we didn't face a competent feeding strat much during that time either, I really have only seen it used effectively in a 3v3 game I've played. But I'd chalk that up to it being relatively unknown and risky. We never tried it because we thought it was a stupid way to win, but both of us acknowledged that there were almost certainly going to be problems with it later down the road.

[geno]

eventually all three races even out, but mules not only gives an earlier econ boost, it also makes it so that the terran feeder doesn't have to spend much mineral building supply depots and SCVs, so i still say terran has the advantage as a feeder

You may be right for the early game style pushes like TLO used in that video. I'd say it's much less certain with more midgame harass/kills like a muta build, where the more constricting factor is often gas anyways (which can't be mule'd)

[Bweigelt]

i'm replaying original SC campaigns to make the week go faster...

i hope someone redo these campaigns with galaxy editor in sc2, would be so epic

I agree that would be awesome and I would have to think someone is going to do it relatively quickly.

[Judai]

Don't know how many people here check out TeamLiquid.net and the games cast on there but just watched TLO(T) vs Tester(P) in Day9's King of the Beta Tourny and game 2 was beyond epic. Best SC2 game I have seen so far.

Check out http://day9tv.blip.tv/ for a replay. Probably won't be up until tmo though. Tourny has been pretty bleh so far imo but that game was pretty crazy.

[GRT]

anyone else going to pick up the game at midnight? i'm wondering what kind of lines i should expect. I don't really want to get in line early, but I don't wanna go so late that the store's already closed... 1 am sounds all right? or maybe earlier

[Mathematics]

anyone else going to pick up the game at midnight? i'm wondering what kind of lines i should expect. I don't really want to get in line early, but I don't wanna go so late that the store's already closed... 1 am sounds all right? or maybe earlier

whenever i got to a midnight release at gamestop they have some sort of system to get everyone in and out quick. ive never waited longer than 20 mins in line. and if you live close enough, just drive around it at about 11:50ish and see how many peeps are there

[arus2001]

anyone else going to pick up the game at midnight? i'm wondering what kind of lines i should expect. I don't really want to get in line early, but I don't wanna go so late that the store's already closed... 1 am sounds all right? or maybe earlier

I'd fucking laugh if I went to Wal-Mart and saw a line here, honestly. Maybe I just underestimate the number of gamers around here based on how vocal people are about doing redneck things, but I didn't really have to fight in a line for a Wii back in the day, either.

[Insanecyclone]

You guys love spoilers? Well this is one is a major one.

Spoiler: show

[GRT]

not clicking on that lol

cinematics already datamined eh?

[Bweigelt]

Guess I'm just going to have to stay off the interwebs for the next few days. I'm too hyped about this game to let anything be spoiled.

[Lyramion]

Got my copy here from Amazone - come on 27th come on

[Misuicide]

i'm not watching said spoiler, i can hold off for 3 days!, well perhaps a bit earlier, as i am getting my copy at midnight

[Juben]

Can't wait for this game thinking of buying a new machine altogether for this and FFXIV. The Beta seemed kind of rough for Terran, but i probably just sucked protoss and zerg just beat me down like i stole something. When i did protoss/zerg i had a chance but the moment i choose human i lost. Heard in LA and NYC a few people already started camping for this game which is insane.

anyway here is something to give people a decent laugh checked the last few pages didn't see it posted http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR0ZQaBVtsw