I have returned: StarCraft II

[Bweigelt]

Isn't the OSL switching to SC2 after the current one finishes? That's what I remember hearing anyway.

[Maguspk]

two posts above you

I clicked that link and got some broken stream to someone casting something with 'teleporters' it wasn't starcraft.

Ah I feel stupid now, it wasn't a stream it was just a recording.

[Syntex]

I clicked that link and got some broken stream to someone casting something with 'teleporters' it wasn't starcraft.

Ah I feel stupid now, it wasn't a stream it was just a recording.

I had to stop watching the stream because about 7 minutes into the 2nd game it just freezes and when I can get it to play again its like 14 minutes later in the same match which so I missed half of it while it was stuck.

Gonna wait for Day9 or husky to post the replays on their youtube channel.

[Bweigelt]

I had to stop watching the stream because about 7 minutes into the 2nd game it just freezes and when I can get it to play again its like 14 minutes later in the same match which so I missed half of it while it was stuck.

Gonna wait for Day9 or husky to post the replays on their youtube channel.

Same thing happened to me =(

Anyway I know I said it earlier but more and more ZvT is turning out like PvZ in BW. All of sudden IdrA does something new and suddenly Mech isn't imbalanced anymore. I think it will probably be a month or less before we see someone either come up with a new opening to combat reaper/hellion openings, or we see blizzard up the build time on Reapers and everyone will forget ZvT was ever considered imbalanced.

[Maguspk]

Where are you watching stuff? The 2nd game fucks up for me also. Please share links when you talk about stuff XD

[GRT]

oh that problem happens to me too, but it's better than nothing lol

[Syntex]

I don't see reapers being nerfed because of the recent buff to them making their packs cost 50/50 down from 100/100.

They are good but not used enough in games to make them warrant a nerf bat so soon.

Fast roach play can count hellions and reapers easily or even fast muta assuming we are talking a little more then popping out one hellion/reaper then not making any more.

[Maguspk]

LOL @ Idra interview before match with Morrow. The host was like 'That was amazing what you did with the mutalisks yesterday' and Idra basically said 'Yeah, I came up with it on the spot and it worked'. I have to admit when he was owning his thors with mutas I was flipping out, that was some amazing play from Idra.

Also found the babes on their arms hilariously awkward, they both look so uncomfortable.

WOW....that was very shocking.

I highly recommend this to everyone to watch...
http://tv.esl.eu/de/vod/view/22367

[Correction]

It was fun to watch the comeback in game 2 and the anti-scout measures in the final game, but besides that I reckon SC2 is at least 3 'seasons' away from being anywhere near as compelling to watch as BW VODs are. I'm not seeing anywhere near the level of multitasking in SC2 that would make me think 'pro player.' Maybe it's just the Reaper harass and countermeasures that are boring to watch. Can't wait until all 3 races are better represented.

[Iku]

been watching SC2. Spreading muta to weaken thors spash dmg is not anything new, but idra did do it perfectly so it is very entertaining. anyway, right now sc2 is nowhere fun to watch like BW.

[Bweigelt]

It's not spreading, he didn't spread them which is the thing. He used the magic box in combination with using stop over the Thors which is infinitely easier than trying to spread each muta individually and is something pretty much any zerg can do.

And of course the games aren't going to be to the level of BW games. It's been out for what four weeks? BW has been out for 11 years. Also none of the true SC1 pro's are playing yet. Let's see where it goes once Jaedong and Flash get their hands on it.

[Syntex]

It's not spreading, he didn't spread them which is the thing. He used the magic box in combination with using stop over the Thors which is infinitely easier than trying to spread each muta individually and is something pretty much any zerg can do.

And of course the games aren't going to be to the level of BW games. It's been out for what four weeks? BW has been out for 11 years. Also none of the true SC1 pro's are playing yet. Let's see where it goes once Jaedong and Flash get their hands on it.

What? Explain this to me I'm confused.

Also I find SC2 games just as entertaining as BW games the only difference bing 1000x more of those awesome plays only due to its length of being out vs SC2.

[Bweigelt]

What? Explain this to me I'm confused.

Also I find SC2 games just as entertaining as BW games the only difference bing 1000x more of those awesome plays only due to its length of being out vs SC2.

I'll let a video do the talking for me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68H8F...layer_embedded

Basically it changes the whole dynamic of the matchup as it forces Terran players to get marines which makes the mid game state before ultra's are out much more manageable.

[geno]

Broodwar is probably more entertaining largely because its so well figured out and the balance is good enough for maps to shift trends between seasons.

SC2 just isn't like that yet. There aren't too many standard and safe plays out there right now that are going to stand the test of time. We've already seen many strategies that looked like they would become standard come and go.

And because of that variability we are seeing two things, one of which has been helpful to the scene, and the other of which has been detrimental. Creativity is rampant at this stage, and the variance between builds is amazing. When someone was thought of as a creative player in BW in recent years, it meant they slightly altered a very standard build for a slightly different timing. In SC2 it means completely rethinking the way the game is being played. This has certainly been good for spectatorship.

On the other side of that coin, the wide variety of playstyles has led to a lot of quickly decided matches. Tricky plays that rely on not being seen or heard of, clever strategies not yet studied, and attack timings previously unencountered are so prominent, many competitive games are ending in short and sweet one-battle games. Entertaining to a degree, but not as epic as many BW spectators have become accustomed to.

As the play level rises, I'd be willing to bet we will see longer games though. Stronger players will favor strategies that give them the best chance at surviving the widest array of enemy playstyles, which by definition means longer games. Of course, balance issues could prevent this progression, but hopefully Blizzard isn't too slow to jump on things like that.

[Maguspk]

The 5 rax reaper scares me because it beat Idra so soundly. In all honestly the only way to beat that as a zerg is to simply 'defend' against it and pray that they mis-micro or give you enough time not being harassed to econ your way to mutas or something, I don't even know. The problem is you have to keep producing roaches and that really puts you back and prevents you from being able to tech up. Then once they feel comfortable they just switch to M&M and rape your face or go mech, either way it's totally safe for them. The zerg is counting on poor play from the Terran or something, that's just wrong.

[Bweigelt]

The 5 rax reaper scares me because it beat Idra so soundly. In all honestly the only way to beat that as a zerg is to simply 'defend' against it and pray that they mis-micro or give you enough time not being harassed to econ your way to mutas or something, I don't even know. The problem is you have to keep producing roaches and that really puts you back and prevents you from being able to tech up. Then once they feel comfortable they just switch to M&M and rape your face or go mech, either way it's totally safe for them. The zerg is counting on poor play from the Terran or something, that's just wrong.

Oh that muta thing I posted has nothing to do with the 5 rax reaper strat. That is something I think needs to be changed. I think increasing the reapers build time slightly would do a lot of alleviate the problem.

[Maguspk]

Oh that muta thing I posted has nothing to do with the 5 rax reaper strat. That is something I think needs to be changed. I think increasing the reapers build time slightly would do a lot of alleviate the problem.

Oh yeah, wasn't commenting on whatever you posted just commenting in general. I agree, build time could be increased and/or the speed upgrade could cost a bit more.

[geno]

The reaper thing worries me because of what it means for zerg. They certainly can defend it, but more often than not, defending it means putting yourself at such a MASSIVE disadvantage later in the game, you just have to force yourself to try to walk a razor's edge. Either underrespond and lose right away or overdefend and be certain of a loss later in the game to MM.

I feel like its their building damage that is just a little too much. If cannons or spine crawlers could even marginally defend, it wouldn't be so bad. Tech switches wouldn't be able to just hard counter static defense until at least siege tanks, which is enough time to react for yourself. But static defense is absolute garbage against a mass reaper strategy. In sufficient numbers, they can just one shot anything and run out before taking any significant damage, regardless of the number of static defense structures.

So with static defense being useless, players are forced to defend with a high early unit count, which can then be leisurely countered (no need to worry about any pressure from those units when you have reapers in their base) in your next big push before they can change tech themselves.

I don't know what the solution is, it may just have to be rebalanced I guess.

[Kaylia]

Is there any custom map that let you practice your microing. Making your own map to test a few things take forever

[Deftscythe]

Just watched IEM finals last night. Really exciting series. Wish it had gone to five but I'm glad to see Idra get knocked down a peg.

Also, enjoyed Day9 and Apollo's commentary but I hate how Day9 asks the crowd to cheer between each match.