So Square might have trolled the world.

[Xavier]

So like any conspiracy theory regarding a SE game, you basically want to be cryogenically frozen until the year 2250 when mankind has become nearly extinct and no one remembers what a video game is

By 2250 life will be a videogame. Sounds like a good idea though.

----------------------------------

Ultimacia being Rinoa seems a lot more credible even though I don't think there is enough evidence to fully support the claim.

The one thing I will say that I never understood was how Squall took that icicle through the chest at the end of disc one and woke up without a scratch on his body. But I always just chalked that up to JRPG magic.

[Elcura]

JRPG magic.

Wasn't enough in FFVII. Gotta love how convenient some shit is.

[Xavier]

Yes well, JRPG magic obviously can't be cast on women.

[Insanecyclone]

Would explain why everything went to shit after disc 1.

[The Stig]

Yeh disk 1 was cool... then it got slooowww and drowned out.

I remember that hole in face pic, it's odd. Didn't scare me when I beat the game or think too much of it, and now when I look at it, god it is a bit frightening.

[Kerberoz]

I remember that hole in face pic

That shit was http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...eNightmareFuel

[The Stig]

That shit was http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...eNightmareFuel

Oh hey a troper! Did you just add that entry there? I never noticed it there before.

EDIT: entry of the faceless squall *

[Lucavi]

Would explain why everything went to shit after disc 1.

^ This.

[Darus Grey]

Actually I have to say I'm incredibly inclined to believe this.

The dream explains the ulticema=riona connection in and of itself, and let's be honest... JPs love amnesia and dreams, they're only in...every game ever, that alone is enough to make this credible.

edit: Hell, maybe the "theme" song for the game is the ultimate give away, if you think of it as being sung from the perspective of squall's mind(as riona singing it to him through her symbolic connection to the singer), didn't see that mentioned.

Spoiler: show

Whenever sang my song

On the stage, on my own

Whenever said my words

Wishing they would be heard.

I saw you smiling at me

Was it real or just my fantasy

You'd always be there in the corner

Of this tiny little bar





My last night here for you

Same old songs, just once more

My last night here with you?

Maybe yes, maybe no.

I kind of liked it your way

How you shyly placed your eyes on me

Oh did you ever know?

That I have mine on you





Darling, so there you are

With that look on your face

As if you're never hurt

As if you're never down.

Shall I be the one for you

Who pinches you softly but sure

If frown is shown then

I will know that you are no dreamer





So let me come to you

Close as I wanna be

Close enough for me

To feel your heart beating fast.

And stay there as I whisper

How I loved your peaceful eyes on me

Did you ever know

That I have mine on you





Darling, so share with me

Your love if you have enough

Your tears if you're holding back

Or pain if that's what it is

How can I let you know

I'm more than the dress and the voice

Just reach me out then

You would know that you're not dreaming

[Akucaen]

The only reason I had a hard time accepting the ending as-is (Squall just trying to navigate the time... well(?)) was because at the very end when Balamb garden is flying away, they're flying away over nothing. It's gray rock. It's not water, it's not any land that's featured in the rest of the game. It's the same material you ran around on while in the time warp.

That's the only thing that kept me from just 100% accepting it as presented, and even then these wild conspiracy theories aren't exactly useful nor helping.

[Devolver]

I've honestly thought this from the first time I seen the ice shard go through Squall's chest.

How does someone look at that from a 3rd person point of view, and see him get up from that without much of a fucking scratch with no further explanation of that event, and not think that he's dead?

[AoE]

Only thing I agree with about that site is that "Eyes On Me" is indeed a horrible song.

[Fereydoon]

Only thing I agree with about that site is that "Eyes On Me" is indeed a horrible song.

Awwww. I kinda like "Eyes On Me". It's better then "Suteki Da Ne" which was a good enough song but Rikki's voice pisses me off in a way I never thought possible. >_>

[MisterBob]

What does this have to do with "trolling" at all?

[Olo401]

Played FF8 for like 10 minutes and threw it away.. so i wouldn't know or care about this.

[Raen Ryong]

I would have loved it if Rinoa was Ultimecia because it adds an element of tragedy/depth to an otherwise shallow and somewhat unexciting final nemesis, but Square themselves have directly stated that Rinoa is not Ultimecia.

[aduidarnenye]

I know that Squall didn't die at the end because I didn't use him in the final fight at all.

[BerenTebogo]

I would have loved it if Rinoa was Ultimecia because it adds an element of tragedy/depth to an otherwise shallow and somewhat unexciting final nemesis, but Square themselves have directly stated that Rinoa is not Ultimecia.

Source?

[Zilong]

Subtlety is for pussies.

[Raen Ryong]

Source?

I was wrong in that I said Square has DIRECTLY stated that Rinoa != Ultimecia (rusty, forgive me) but it is indirectly implied and my source is in the spoiler (it's a tiny bit long so...). Reading over it again to refresh my memory, this isn't a one hundred percent denial of the possibility of this theory but it strongly opposes it and the source of the information is Square themselves.

Just as a further disclaimer, none of the writing in the spoiler is mine.

Spoiler: show

Many points used to argue in favor of the theory either already require having
accepted it as fact -- in which case the conclusion would be used as support
for the evidence that's supposed to support the conclusion, a logical fallacy
known as "circular reasoning" that absolutely is never valid in a debate -- or
require making some leaps in assumption that have shaky support at best, are
defeated by Occam's Razor at times ("all things being equal, the most simple
explanation is the best"), or are outright contradicted by information in the
original story or other official materials.

In fact, the matter of witch immortality is altogether *impossible*, as it
is outright contradicted by the "WITCHES" entry in the Final Fantasy VIII
Ultimania guide, which states that witches have a normal lifespan:

(Translated by DarkAngel)
"SORCERESSES

Said to have existed from time immemorial to the present day, the sorceresses
are women who are said to have received their powers from the old god, Hyne.
There is, however, no hard evidence to support this claim. Extraordinarily
powerful, many sorceresses have harboured ambitions to rule over the world --
as a result, many people have come to equate the Sorceress with fear. However,
there are also many Sorceresses who have chosen to live a quiet life sheltered
away from civilized society; as such, the actual number of Sorceresses and the
amount of power shared between them remains unknown.

The potential to become a sorceress is determined by one's capacity to wield
such power -- their natural affinity for magic. This factor helps to determine
Sorceress candidates for when a Sorceress passes on all of her power into the
next Sorceress. The giving and receiving of power can be made between any two
individuals -- it not necessary for them to be related by blood. A Sorceress's
lifespan is the same as a normal human's, however they cannot die until they
have passed on their power to the next Sorceress."

----
NOTE: The Ultimania is a guidebook published by Square(-Enix) which besides
containing an immense amount of data on monster statistics and battle
mechanics, also contains information about the plot intended to supplement
the game. In other words it's where Square fill in (some of) the blanks left
in the game.
----

Since it is quite obvious that Ultimecia lives too far into the future for
any of the in-game characters to live to see her rise to power within a normal
human lifespan, it is clear that Rinoa cannot become Ultimecia even if she is
a witch. The game states that Ultimecia lives "many generations" ahead of the
present era, and even the most feeble interpretation of "many" would
not allow Rinoa to become Ultimecia.

While the Ultimania states that witches cannot die until they have passed on
their powers, in all cases where we see witches fatally wounded, they either
die immediately or shortly thereafter, suggesting that they either choose to
die then and there so as to end their suffering, or that their bodies force
them to give up their powers. The latter notion is supported by the fact that
Ultimecia is still trying to defy her fate during the ending, even while her
body is forcing her to give up her powers.

We know this because she states "I...can't...disappear yet," which is
certainly not a statement of defiance regarding dying *with* her powers, as
she couldn't anyway according to the Ultimania. This was a statement made in
defiance of dying at all, which she would if she gave up her powers.

Seeing as how she didn't want to die yet does, we can only conclude that
witches' bodies force them to give up their powers when the time of their
natural death has arrived -- in which case Rinoa couldn't have remained alive
by simply choosing to hold onto her powers despite having reached the end of
her natural lifespan. Rinoa *will* die before Ultimecia is born. Rinoa is
*not* immortal.

Rinoa is *not* Ultimecia.

While one might still yet argue that Rinoa could have been placed in the same
kind of seal that Adel was, and that this cryogenically preserved her far
into the future until she was released, such a notion is never suggested to
have occurred by any of the information we do have -- nor do we even know that
this process prevents aging.

In any case, trying to find a means around the declared authorial intent that
witches aren't immortal that would still allow for one to live for centuries
into the future despite no other indication that this does or even can place
seems to be somewhat defeating the point of an argument for authorial intent.

Besides, there's already a perfectly valid and well-supported explanation of
Ultimecia's origin anyway, with said origin not being dependent on Rinoa in
any form whatsoever -- and based solely on in-game details. Refer to
TheOnionKnight's "The Unjust Persecution" article below.

The final word: The conclusion that is drawn by this document, its authors, and
which we believe to be supported by the in-game evidence, extra textual
materials, and principle of Occam's Razor is thus: Rinoa *is not* and
*cannot* be Ultimecia. The theory is altogether not plausible nor reasonably
possible.

Source: http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/197343/34215