Post Your Augmented Items V: Might As Well Be Random Fail

[noodles355]

Please explain to me how, if the STP is not altering the number of hits to 100% TP (Or as I said: always giving at least one hit less) it decreases the average hits needed to 100%TP.

You basically said "You're wrong" and then agreed with me

[Darkmagi]

No you were saying it was only good because it cut off an attack round every time which I was disagreeing with.

[mdkuser]

How many uninterrupted attacks is it going to take for 1% haste to outweigh a healthy bundle of Attack, STR, and Store TP? Honest question.

if you made full use of those 1% haste, it certainly beats 2str 6 attack. However the good part here is you have 2 store tp, which moves you from 19 to 21 STP on full usukane monk. Normally 2 STP is about +2% ws damage since monk have so many attack per rounds and so many attacks till 100 TP, but 21 stp is also a special number where it is much more than 2% ws dmg,, and its better than 1% haste even if you have dancer.

store tp does nothing if it doesnt save you a hit. Would you use a flame ring over a blitz ring?

stp always do something to two handed jobs ( especially multi attack DDs like monk, thf, war/nin), what you say only apply to two handers.

[noodles355]

No you were saying it was only good because it cut off an attack round every time which I was disagreeing with.

That is only because adding skadi basically always reduces one hit to 100%TP.

On average, it will save one hit (or one attack round every other round)

[noodles355]

Normally 2 STP is about +2% ws damage

Wut

stp always do something to two handed (You mean dual wielders) jobs

wut

[Miraun]

Wut

Clearly, you should maximize STP so that you're the most you can possibly be after 100% to increase your FTP for zomfg WS damages!

(note: That was internet sarcasm)

[mdkuser]

put noodles on your ignore list like me. This topic has also been beaten to death already.

Jobs that attack multiple times per round get more use out of store tp than jobs that attack one time per round (2 handers). You never know if store tp will save you a hit or not just by looking at your weapon's TP return, because your X-hit or X-round build also depends on the tp returns of your ws, which varies a lot. Add do that the tripple attacks, double attacks, dualwield,, kick attacks,... make X-hit considerations retarded ( only X round build matters, and so you have to consider and average number of rounds), and they are the very reason why:

- rajas is better than torreador for most ( all?) one handed DDs. caped acc or not.
- white thaltum is better than black thaltum for monk and capped acc (e.g. focus).
- skadi legs are better than homam ,ASA, or barbarossa for caped or uncaped acc, on THF.
- carapace is better than justice for capped acc ( and than tiercel with 25% haste).
- usukane body is better than shura togi for TPing w/o full set as monk, caped acc or not.
- full usu is better than mix match old school 25% haste ( turban fumas byakkos, BB) for caped acc.
- ETC.

[noodles355]

put noodles on your ignore list like me. This topic has also been beaten to death already.

Jobs that attack multiple times per round get more use out of store tp than jobs that attack one time per round (2 handers). You never know if store tp will save you a hit or not just by looking at your weapon's TP return, because your X-hit or X-round build also depends on the tp returns of your ws, which varies a lot.

When did you give pchan your BG account?

You're being retarded.
If it doesn't change the number of rounds you need (example: 22 rounds to 22 rounds) then it does nothing for DW/H2H. Prove otherwise.
If it reduces one hit, then on average it will reduce one hit. (and for DW, on average it will reduce one round on half of your climbs to 100%)

Skadi beat everything else for thief TP because they reduce the number of hits to a 100TP when paired with rajas and brutal on every dagger combo by either one or two rounds. Thus on average you will take one or two rounds less to 100%TP. It's not because of the warped logic that for single-handed DDs Store TP magically does something if it doesn't change the number of hits you need for 100%TP, like your justification of gorget and wtath.

This is like the alla thf forums trying to model STP conciderations with "TP per hour". My posts are hardly quality, and i make many mistakes but your justifaction of STP+ being worthwhile if it doesn't change the hits you need for 100%TP is retarded.

Someone quote me so he reads it.

[Sudox]

Thought this was neat:

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/2...eetstr1aug.png

[Miraun]

put noodles on your ignore list like me. This topic has also been beaten to death already.

Jobs that attack multiple times per round get more use out of store tp than jobs that attack one time per round (2 handers). You never know if store tp will save you a hit or not just by looking at your weapon's TP return, because your X-hit or X-round build also depends on the tp returns of your ws, which varies a lot. Add do that the tripple attacks, double attacks, dualwield,, kick attacks,... make X-hit considerations retarded ( only X round build matters, and so you have to consider and average number of rounds), and they are the very reason why:

- rajas is better than torreador for most ( all?) one handed DDs. caped acc or not.
- white thaltum is better than black thaltum for monk and capped acc (e.g. focus).
- skadi legs are better than homam ,ASA, or barbarossa for caped or uncaped acc, on THF.
- carapace is better than justice for capped acc ( and than tiercel with 25% haste).
- usukane body is better than shura togi for TPing w/o full set as monk, caped acc or not.
- full usu is better than mix match old school 25% haste ( turban fumas byakkos, BB) for caped acc.
- ETC.

So, to net out the end of your message, don't put on more ACC when you're capped on ACC, and don't put more haste on when you're capped Haste? Obvious statements are obvious. I can't speak about the specifics of the Rajas versus Toreadors for uncapped instances, since I haven't done out the math to prove one way or the other, but I would assume that Rajas would come out ahead.

I'm going to assume that there's some miscommunication in here, and try to sum up the arguments:

You started # of hits to 100% TP, is insignificant versus the # of Rounds to 100% TP, due to the random instances that occur (DA/TA/OAT). However, Noodle's main point (I think?) is that there's still a direct relationship between # of hits needed and # of rounds needed. If the STP doesn't decrease # of hits needed, then it is not worth gearing for. The DA/TA/OAT argument really doesn't mitigate this concern.

However your second argument; due to the large relative variation of TP return on the 1H Multi-hit-WSs (Dancing Edge, Asuran Fists, Vorpal Blade) relative to the base TP return, there can not be a uniformed number of hits required consistently to reach the 100% TP value, thus an inconsistent # of hits needed. This is not the case for 2H, due to the relative TP gain of additional hits of a WS being less influential (16% to 17% TP is not as significant as 5% to 6%). Therefore, due to this uncertainty, Store TP is worth gearing since it will (sometimes) assist in cutting off a hit to 100% TP, thus potentially resulting in cutting off an attack round for a realized reduced delay to WS.

However, in the end, it's still an observation/opinion from mdkuser that would need to be subjected to some fun fun probability tests to prove/disprove, relative to the maths for the next best alternatives.

...Does that make sense?

[Limlight]

So, to net out the end of your message, don't put on more ACC when you're capped on ACC, and don't put more haste on when you're capped Haste? Obvious statements are obvious. I can't speak about the specifics of the Rajas versus Toreadors for uncapped instances, since I haven't done out the math to prove one way or the other, but I would assume that Rajas would come out ahead.

I'm going to assume that there's some miscommunication in here, and try to sum up the arguments:

You started # of hits to 100% TP, is insignificant versus the # of Rounds to 100% TP, due to the random instances that occur (DA/TA/OAT). However, Noodle's main point (I think?) is that there's still a direct relationship between # of hits needed and # of rounds needed. If the STP doesn't decrease # of hits needed, then it is not worth gearing for. The DA/TA/OAT argument really doesn't mitigate this concern.

However your second argument; due to the large relative variation of TP return on the 1H Multi-hit-WSs (Dancing Edge, Asuran Fists, Vorpal Blade) relative to the base TP return, there can not be a uniformed number of hits required consistently to reach the 100% TP value, thus an inconsistent # of hits needed. This is not the case for 2H, due to the relative TP gain of additional hits of a WS being less influential (16% to 17% TP is not as significant as 5% to 6%). Therefore, due to this uncertainty, Store TP is worth gearing since it will (sometimes) assist in cutting off a hit to 100% TP, thus potentially resulting in cutting off an attack round for a realized reduced delay to WS.

However, in the end, it's still an observation/opinion from mdkuser that would need to be subjected to some fun fun probability tests to prove/disprove, relative to the maths for the next best alternatives.

...Does that make sense?

i'll sum it up even more

suck less~

use rajas and store tp in your 1hand/2hand builds.

profit

[Dathus]

Dude, fuck JPs, really. Like, it's just not fair.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...uttonflame.jpg

Haet.

[Clerix]

Thought this was neat:

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/2...eetstr1aug.png

Pachipachio or Kogarasumaru?

[Fottiti]

When did you give pchan your BG account?

You're being retarded.
If it doesn't change the number of rounds you need (example: 22 rounds to 22 rounds) then it does nothing for DW/H2H. Prove otherwise.
If it reduces one hit, then on average it will reduce one hit. (and for DW, on average it will reduce one round on half of your climbs to 100%)

You are acting like you start from 0 tp after every WS. Mnk and Thf both have a large vartiation in tp return on WS, even with capped accuracy.

There is no way to calculate or quantify how much damage you are going to take but its a fair assumption you will be taking some on a regular basis (not in any specific scenario but just as a blanket statement). This further varies the potential usefulness of adding small amounts of stp even if they don't change x hit build.

I don't see how it can increase WS frequency by as much as the stp you are adding but it will certainly have an impact even if it doesn't change the number of punches you need to hit 100tp on ffcalculator.

[Sudox]

Pachipachio or Kogarasumaru?

Pachi iirc.

[Drac]

Raaaaaage I only get shitty augments >_> Light Resist+2 on Amemet, wtfff

[Demosthenes11]

I don't see how it can increase WS frequency by as much as the stp you are adding but it will certainly have an impact even if it doesn't change the number of punches you need to hit 100tp on ffcalculator.

this makes 0 sense

[mdkuser]

it makes a lot of sense.

[Tricen]

For the longest time I always pronounced your name is M.D. Kuser. Now I just realize it's MDK User. Shit got real, wow.

[Dontkare]

I am eagerly awaiting Pchan's retarded son to mature into something we can all hate almost as equally.