lv99 bitch/speculation/etc thread

[sruon]

Technically it's 33%, 50% with AFv2 legs on DRG only. My mistake. Even then, ~2-3 weapon skills. /NIN is vastly superior for survivability.

It definitly is, I mostly used it for Ixion. Seigan is enough for the random melee hits. And the rest is going to fuck your shadows anyway

[Draylo]

What makes you think you can only ws with sa? Sub nin don't give dd benefits only defensive.

[Atoreis]

I dont know what sub is better on Khmaira or w/e for SAM but i will say it depends on your support ( like always ). One thing is funny tho. You counting SAM/thf like he is doing 1 WS with SA every 60 sec. I dont know why you dont count he can do more WS between SA recast and also one of them with TA which makes that one hateless (ofc at some point you will jump on max hate anyway but it will be slightly longer with helping tank on his hate also ). I dont see then how its one WS for 850 every 60 sec vs 3 WS for avg 500. Its one WS every 60 sec for 850 + 2 ws for avg lets say 450 and one of them with TA.

EDIT: Kinda beaten by Draylo

[sruon]

hint: you do more damage when you're not weakened/waiting for a raise.

[Atoreis]

hint: I was talking more about /thf vs /drg not vs /nin none said /thf will win on survivability but /drg will die as much as /thf when it gets hate and imo WSing every 60 sec with TA is more hate cut then high jump every 2:30 (also you helping tank on hate)

[Tsuko_Asura]

What makes you think you can only ws with sa? Sub nin don't give dd benefits only defensive.

Which completely negates any benefit you were trying to use as a crutch to the support job from the get-go..

Edit: Grammar

[ronin sparthos]

Or not be /THF and have it work just as well?

Also, why would anyone do Turtle KSNM99? Wyrm exists.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Adamantoise_Egg - The reason.

[Atoreis]

Which completely negates any benefit you were trying to use as a crutch to the support job from the get-go..

Edit: Grammar

I always tho /thf in endgame on HNMs is for TA and SA was only benefit when you could SATA but maybe im wrong idk.

[ZhiGaruda]

I dont know what sub is better on Khmaira or w/e for SAM but i will say it depends on your support ( like always ). One thing is funny tho. You counting SAM/thf like he is doing 1 WS with SA every 60 sec. I dont know why you dont count he can do more WS between SA recast and also one of them with TA which makes that one hateless (ofc at some point you will jump on max hate anyway but it will be slightly longer with helping tank on his hate also ). I dont see then how its one WS for 850 every 60 sec vs 3 WS for avg 500. Its one WS every 60 sec for 850 + 2 ws for avg lets say 450 and one of them with TA.

EDIT: Kinda beaten by Draylo

Because the SAM/THF will then pull hate and die in seconds? The purpose of subbing Ninja is to be able to do constant damage AND tank once you inevitably pull hate.

[sruon]

The only possible outcome of taking hate on /THF is eating the hits and pray for Seigan (let's not even assume you're on a job with no damage mitigeation) and your support (3 WHMs isn't effiscient sorry.) to curebomb you until it finally leaves you. Odds are that on the next one you'll get hate again or you'll have to refrain from WSing for a few minutes.

Now if you're /DRG, you can High Jump and have it forget about you automatically, and you even have some room to keep WSing. Of course at some point you will cap hate without HJ being up (at this point /NIN will really shine) and you'll most likely bit the dust, but by then, you'll have outparsed /THF by a fair(not to say huge) margin.

[Atoreis]

Because the SAM/THF will then pull hate and die in seconds? The purpose of subbing Ninja is to be able to do constant damage AND tank once you inevitably pull hate.

Please read all posts before reply. Once more i also think /nin is better then /drg or /thf cuz of survivability i only disaggre about 1. sam/thf do only 1 WS per 60 sec with SA 2. /drg is better then /thf on HNM like Khim and /drg is less hate then /thf ( Idont say /drg cant be slightly better but statment that /thf is completly useless and /drg is superior is at least scrappy)

[Atoreis]

Now if you're /DRG, you can High Jump and have it forget about you automatically, and you even have some room to keep WSing.

Yeah like 1 WS after...
When /thf will allow you some hateless WS on the way for top hate (also helping tank on hate)

I dont think high jump hate cut is more WS then /thf with TA.
Only situation i can imagine /drg is better is high jump when you get max hate to lose hate and do logoff for hate reset. If You gonna stay and still Ws after high jump you will definietly get hate very fast and die as much as /thf.

[ZhiGaruda]

Please read all posts before reply. Once more i also think /nin is better then /drg or /thf cuz of survivability i only disaggre about 1. sam/thf do only 1 WS per 60 sec with SA 2. /drg is better then /thf on HNM like Khim and /drg is less hate then /thf ( Idont say /drg cant be slightly better but statment that /thf is completly useless and /drg is superior is at least scrappy)

I did read the entire post, and I chose to point out the obvious flaw. YES the SAM/THF can do more than one WS per 60 seconds. NO they cannot do more than one per 60 seconds and expect to survive for any period of time. If a SAM/THF rolls up riding Hasso (as SAM will for WS's), pops his SA+WS, Thunderstrike then stuns the SAM, oh no! Khimaira double attacks and kills the SAM instantly. Meanwhile hate reverts back to me no SAM/NIN with 3 shadows up, and I chill. Suppp.

And /DRG will always be superior to /THF, if not only because the /DRG will live longer. While the /THF is laying dead for 5 minutes, the /DRG has been continuing to deal damage.

[ZhiGaruda]

Yeah like 1 WS after...
When /thf will allow you some hateless WS on the way for top hate (also helping tank on hate)

I dont think high jump hate cut is more WS then /thf with TA.
Only situation i can imagine /drg is better is high jump when you get max hate to lose hate and do logoff for hate reset. If You gonna stay and still Ws after high jump you will definietly get hate very fast and die as much as /thf.

Bolded part is why I want to stop arguing with you right now, you obviously have no knowledge of simple game mechanics.

Logging off does not reset hate.

[Atoreis]

My mistake then sorry. Thats probably cuz i never done logging off for hate reset beside when i was told to do it by LS leader. And giving this idea here was realy trying to much to have any benefit with high jump over TA wsing.

EDIT: and please dont judge my knowladge of game mechanic after 1 mistake which I did 2 years ago only cuz I was told too.

[sruon]

Yeah like 1 WS after...
When /thf will allow you some hateless WS on the way for top hate (also helping tank on hate)

I dont think high jump hate cut is more WS then /thf with TA.
Only situation i can imagine /drg is better is high jump when you get max hate to lose hate and do logoff for hate reset. If You gonna stay and still Ws after high jump you will definietly get hate very fast and die as much as /thf.

You are terribly biased and I can tell you haven't even tried these subjobs.

What's the point?

[Tsuko_Asura]

And how any of you believe that making 1 of your 3-4 WS per minute(which is what an average SAM should be WSing at a rate of) hateless is going to in any way amount to shedding ~49% of your total enmity every 3 minutes.

[Byrthnoth]

I disagree, it's a viable sub when you want to manage hat and not feed Tp.

I hate you guys for not making a funny picture to go with this quote already.

[Draylo]

The only possible outcome of taking hate on /THF is eating the hits and pray for Seigan (let's not even assume you're on a job with no damage mitigeation) and your support (3 WHMs isn't effiscient sorry.) to curebomb you until it finally leaves you. Odds are that on the next one you'll get hate again or you'll have to refrain from WSing for a few minutes.

Now if you're /DRG, you can High Jump and have it forget about you automatically, and you even have some room to keep WSing. Of course at some point you will cap hate without HJ being up (at this point /NIN will really shine) and you'll most likely bit the dust, but by then, you'll have outparsed /THF by a fair(not to say huge) margin.

By that time shit will be dead. Either that or you tank can easily get hate back. TA ws and sa when up, seigan TE when you get hate is sufficient. If no thf for accomplice and you cap hate and die you can still meditate and sa + Ws. Sub degree can't do as much weak

[Draylo]

I hate you guys for not making a funny picture to go with this quote already.

Hey buddy.... screw you. I'm on my phone, shit is annoying to type with.