lv99 bitch/speculation/etc thread

[Konda]

Perhaps I'm kinda biast in my ways of thinking since I first lv'd SAM in 2004 and did sky with 0 support in my party, when SAM rotations and meditate merits were the shit.

Both the job and the game have changed so much since then, but /THF is still a viable SJ for a majority of the playerbase in a number of events.


idk why, but I really dont enjoy playing sam/nin, juggling shadows, avoiding hasso/siegan casting on Ni and no way to get shadows back up without seigan. If you need to shadow tank, I'd much rather go mnk(counterstance) or NIN(eva or -50% pdt)

[Konda]

Konda Tp's in full usu on a job that isnt mnk. his opinion is invalid.

polarm build w/o merits (I had 406 Acc by my count)

and full usu on NIN is an excellent balance of offensive and defensive traits, not to mention about 30 Acc over a typical 75NIN build with AF body etc.

[Khajit]

It's also gimping yourself and your damage to do so.

[Konda]

It's also gimping yourself and your damage to do so.

Trading 30 acc and 30evasion vs 2% haste for NIN.

That's a bad thing for a Job with 269 skill in a 1h weapon?

[NynJa]

Please take note of the fact my reply about a stun move killing a SAM/THF was in reference to it vs. /NIN, hence the comment of "3 shadows".

Unless I'm overlooking something, thunderstrike/dreadstorm strip shadows on top of terror/stun, rendering the 3 shadows annuled.

[ZhiGaruda]

Unless I'm overlooking something, thunderstrike/dreadstorm strip shadows on top of terror/stun, rendering the 3 shadows annuled.

Dreadstorm strips shadows - thunderstrike does not.

Fight Khimaira more!

[NynJa]

Dreadstorm strips shadows - thunderstrike does not.

Fight Khimaira more!

My bad, been a while.

Fuck Khim, if I'm gonna go back to the HNM scene, its going to be to fight worthwhile things, not lolKhim.

[FailureMidgard]

The less support you have, the less advantage SAM/DRG has. The less TP feeding or oppertunity to melee, the less advantage SAM/DRG has.

Wrong. Jumps alone beat out /thf. Even if you never melee. You can run in to WS, jump, and only melee if you're at 85 TP or w/e.

1) Non-zerged Kirin. (Kited). yes, it's 2010, but some shells still do this, especially if it's new-ish or doesnt have enough people for a zerg/straight tank. You wont be getting 100TP *that* much quicker than SATA timers (it depends on how much he stops and casts and you can actually melee), and if you can do a hateless weaponskill every time, then that's much better than anything /drg can do.

Sub rng...or I'm still not sure why you think SATA is good there...also High Jump is plenty of hate loss. I'd still prefer /drg.

2) Ultima. I've not done this in a while, but when we did, we used ~8 BLMs. meditating out of AoE range and making a light SC for them all to MB is a much more efficient way of doing things than having 2 SAMs DDing and feeding TP. (we were usually low on support)

I'd sub nin, we probably bring less support and less blms than you did. Also, /thf does nothing for SC. It adds some miniscule bullshit amount of damage that is meaningless. I'd sub white mage for MDB and stoneskin before I subbed thf for SATA on a SC.

3) Dark Ixion (I've not had direct experience with this) but I know you dont want SAM/DRGs meleeing it and going infront for overwhelm on their "3-4 WS per min".
SAM/NIN may well be able to tank, but we're comparing DD SJs, not tanking SJs.

In fact, you do no damage in front of DI. Sub nin and tank when you pull hate. Or use /drg if you want to try to not tank. In either case, full time melee is the -only- way to do DI properly, so sorry. Also, DD is tanking. The Sam/nin that is co-tanking will be doing double the damage of your sam/thf. I guess we can call it dtankingd.

Not everyone rolls out of WG with 2brd1cor to buff the shit out of them whenever they see a mob.

1 bard and 1 mage....if you don't have them, you should switch to a different job anyway. Even with no support though, /thf provides NOTHING to a sam. Literally. Nothing. SATA is a huge bullshit joke. Subbing whitemage and keeping dia up is a larger damage increase than SATA, and you can even cure/ss yourself!

SAM/THF has many situations where it's the optimal SJ, if you're too blind to see when and where they are, you're a pretty piss poor player.

No, sorry, you're utter garbage and have no idea what you're talking about.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Konda is Konda. his opinion is invalid.

->

[Khajit]

Trading 30 acc and 30evasion vs 2% haste for NIN.

That's a bad thing for a Job with 269 skill in a 1h weapon?

And 3~5% dual wield and I can cap my ass(to within 90~94% which can be skewed by flash) without it vs mamools with pizza so I honestly wonder how you can even need the extra 15% accuracy you're touting that full usu gives since with sushi you'll have even more acc if your troubles are THAT bad. Plus colibri any event mobs that nin can melee are even weaker and easily capped from 380~407 acc with 407 being the colibri.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Somebody has to say it:

Who cares about ninja?

[Kipling]

Somebody has to say it:

Who cares about ninja?

/

[Konda]

Sub rng...or I'm still not sure why you think SATA is good there...also High Jump is plenty of hate loss. I'd still prefer /drg.



I'd sub nin, we probably bring less support and less blms than you did. Also, /thf does nothing for SC. It adds some miniscule bullshit amount of damage that is meaningless. I'd sub white mage for MDB and stoneskin before I subbed thf for SATA on a SC.

/rng, wtf.

and SATA adds more bonus than overwhelm on high end mobs, so I guess that's meaningles bullshit amount of damage? brb, deleting my overwhelm merits for 5/5 shikikoyo.

1 bard and 1 mage....if you don't have them, you should switch to a different job anyway. Even with no support though, /thf provides NOTHING to a sam. Literally. Nothing. SATA is a huge bullshit joke. Subbing whitemage and keeping dia up is a larger damage increase than SATA, and you can even cure/ss yourself!

I stated quite clearly that that not everyone has access to backline support like that. not every shell has 900000 BRDs who come to every event, most people who I know who have BRD lv'd

Come another job? like what? some people only have 1-2 DDs at 75, and SAM is going to be better at killing hnm than another job.
You're grossly underestimating what a decent player can do with SATA.

Stop being a fucking tool and think of things outside of double march/haste with capped equipment and a relic.

[Khajit]

Because not misssing gekko when most endgame (non hnmls) mobs need 400ish acc is hard. You heard it here folks.
And for some reason that 40~50 single hit acc bonus on gekko does absoluteley nothing to stop you from whiffing right?
And frankly if we're talking about gimps they could /war since they'd be too gimp to pull hate in the first place.

[ZhiGaruda]

Replies in bold

/rng, wtf.

and SATA adds more bonus than overwhelm on high end mobs, so I guess that's meaningles bullshit amount of damage? brb, deleting my overwhelm merits for 5/5 shikikoyo.

/RNG is one of SAM's most effective means of dealing damage, yeah. SA, as I already stated, forces a crit. Nothing more. No super special damage addition via DEX, this isn't THF main. Are you reading what you're typing?


I stated quite clearly that that not everyone has access to backline support like that. not every shell has 900000 BRDs who come to every event, most people who I know who have BRD lv'd

But most shells have two. If you have a party of DD's (A...DD party) that doesn't have some form of BRD, COR, etc, then your shell is doing it wrong. You should never have a party unbuffed, that's completely wasted potential. It's better to have 3 mages and 3 DD's than 6 gimp DD's in one party. How are you even considering this optimal?

Come another job? like what? some people only have 1-2 DDs at 75, and SAM is going to be better at killing hnm than another job.
You're grossly underestimating what a decent player can do with SATA.

Stop being a fucking tool and think of things outside of double march/haste with capped equipment and a relic.

If you can't get a BRD in your DD party, and a RDM can't haste you, again, you have a serious issue. See above comment about mages.

[Militant]

Konda sounds like an Alla poster, I know its old and cliche to say but, jesus man. Just give up. The math's have been done many, many, times. You can opinion all you want... opinion =/= factual proven data.

[Konda]

Spoiler: show

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l1...823_161520.png

note the buffs... hasso, SATA, sub... and no Hate from it, because I dumped it all on the 2nd tank.

I dont see how this is bad. It's a little 2004, but still the best way to go about things in some circumstances.

since SATA such a pitiful dmg boost, I'll wait here for failure to post SAM/DRG doing more dmg?

[chazzyphizzle]

speechless

[ZhiGaruda]

You have a full alliance there. You posted this situation is only good when you don't have enough to zerg/straight tank. Uhh? Can straight tank/kill it with way less than an alliance..what

[Konda]

and ive managed to derail my own thread to shit...

Last thing:

You have a full alliance there. You posted this situation is only good when you don't have enough to zerg/straight tank. Uhh? Can straight tank/kill it with way less than an alliance..what

this was ~18months ago with a pretty new EU sky LS... I posted the soboro SAM/NIN using Ohat/togi and some other retarded shit on the same kirin in the gimp thread. oh, and the mnk using vampire claws on it. cool enough ppl, but more than one of them are rly fucking gimp.

ontopic: How do you think they'll handle merits? I sure as hell better not get my 500~ deleted or become useless.