lv99 bitch/speculation/etc thread

[Konda]

probably should have asked before now, but where exactly is this maths that was done to show soboro > hagun.

pchan just came in and said "soboro > hagun, we mafz'd it" and didn't post any proof at all.

[Forte]

probably should have asked before now, but where exactly is this maths that was done to show soboro > hagun.

pchan just came in and said "soboro > hagun, we mafz'd it" and didn't post any proof at all.

Hence why pchan shouldn't be allowed to speak anymore, regardless of it's correctness.

[Tsuko_Asura]

To be fair, nobody's asked him for the math up until now.

[Forte]

To be fair, nobody's asked him for the math up until now.

No one should ask Pchan for anything. No one should even be TALKING to Pchan.

[Draylo]

I'd be interested in seeing that. Also why aren't avatars working?

[Thorny]

Attn: Konda. Stop Posting.

You already saw brief math explaining why soboro is better from a damage perspective in the magians thread, if you want to misquote like a moron and ignore the tp feed, go for it. A good sam will own both, situations like JoL or skeletons in ein where TP feed is irrelevant because of lack of threatening moves or permanent 100+ tp and polearm isn't viable favor soboro. Situations where your tp given actually matters and polearm isn't viable favor hagun. Most situations favor polearm.

[Konda]

You already saw brief math explaining why soboro is better from a damage perspective in the magians thread

tbh, I thought pchan made that point in this thread, and I wouldn't be asking where this maths is if I'd seen it would I?

[Thorny]

you're still looking at an average of ~2.9 rounds for soboro while hagun is 4.34.. soboro gets 50% more ws, minor ftp bonus, and better damage from auto-swings while hagun gets 52% more ws damage(assuming /war and brutal for hagun.. if you /drg then it's still 2.9 for soboro but 4.54 for hagun(with brutal).. giving soboro 56% more ws).. also can tp in something other than brutal with soboro, but don't feel like mathing that since it's a pretty clear cut winner

the extra ftp(and melee damage) from spillover seal the deal, though the weapons are very close and i personally stick to hagun because anything i'm GKing i'm also tanking and prefer not to feed tp

Cliffnotes:

/WAR(useless for gK, but i'm sure someone will bring it up anyway):
Soboro: +50% WS Frequency, whatever gains from ear2 and grip over pole and brutal
Hagun: +~52% WS Damage

For Soboro to win, you need to beat 1.3% ws damage with whatever you use for grip(TP/WS) and ear2(tp only). Very close, but soboro should still win.

/DRG /NIN:
Soboro: +56% WS frequency(DA from /war helps hagun but not soboro), whatever gains from ear2 and grip over pole and brutal, 1.7% tp damage before fSTR(more after)
Hagun: +~52% WS damage

Soboro wins regardless. The WS damage is using the STR estimate posted by someone in magian weapon thread, adding more STR will favor soboro more and lowering it will favor hagun more. However, any good SAM will have enough to put soboro ahead.

You'd seen it, since you replied to the post I quoted. Apparently you didn't read it though..

[Konda]

I asked for the maths.

This is just some conclusions drawn from numbers which could be made up for all I know.



And where on earth did you arrive at the conclusion that /war is useless for SAM?

[sruon]

And where on earth did you arrive at the conclusion that /war is useless for SAM?

/WAR(useless for gK

useless for gk

gk

Dur.

[Konda]

It's still pleanty usefull for GKT, even if y/g/k doesn't benefit from berserk like other weaponskills do.

[Thorny]

I asked for the maths.

This is just some conclusions drawn from numbers which could be made up for all I know.



And where on earth did you arrive at the conclusion that /war is useless for SAM?

The math is in the same fucking thread less than 2 pages prior where a comparison was drawn up for Kurodachi vs Soboro. I copied numbers instead of redoing the same calculations and wasting my time/thread space. Shut the fuck up.

It's still pleanty usefull for GKT, even if y/g/k doesn't benefit from berserk like other weaponskills do.

DA = 115/105 or 9.5% attacks over time
Berserk = a bit over 16% tp damage, increased one shot risk if tanking(lol, but the tp damage is nearly as irrelevant so meh)
Warcry = Garbage.

Wyvern Earring = 5% haste, or about 12.5% attacks over time with marches and haste
Jump = Free attack every 90 seconds, amounting to about 3.3% attacks over time
High Jump = Free attack every 180 seconds, and free hate shed if fight needs it(Ixion/JoL), amounting to about 1.65% attacks over time
Acc Bonus = 10 acc if needed

So
/war = 27.02% TP damage, 9.5% WS damage
/drg = 17.45% TP damage, 17.45% WS damage
really just comparing 9.57% tp damage to 7.95% WS damage, which'll favor /drg in any real situation, the hate shedding tools and increased defense are just another bonus

[mdkuser]

Great katanas in general are medicocre weapons, not only hagun, compared to other jobs. Idk why noob sams still want to argue about it. its absolutely obvious if you compare similarly geared sams war or mnk, with parses or maths. A seigan sam/war does at most 80% of a mnk/NIN, same as a mnk/NIN if he hasso, no more. a seigan war/sam ( perdu) does the same dmg as a mnk/NIN. SAM sucks at dps and it's not news.

yes I said hagun is mediocre, and so is any GK except the relic, exception being HNMs, the only place where it shines. If you don't have at least bard cor and haste and dia2/3 in your party change jobs, don't go sam, your dmg will be very bad. a mnk/NIN will do at least +20% dmg and take less dmg. if you have all those buffers polearn will own any dds including mnk/war, so you should go PA. conclusion: GK sucks. hagun sucks.

[Tsuko_Asura]

It's still pleanty usefull for GKT, even if y/g/k doesn't benefit from berserk like other weaponskills do.

No its not.

[Konda]

No its not.

jesus fucking christ, not this again.


and thorny, you neglected the "pause" after you use a weaponskill, which would reduce soboro's performance in the 3min sample you quoted for.

iirc, ws "pause" is rumoured to be somewhere around ~2secs? (I remember shamaya mentioning it) and with your 26 weaponskills in 3min, you'd be "paused" for ~52 seconds if it is infact ~2secs.

Kuro would only be ~40seconds, and I dont see hagun mentioned in your post.

[Demosthenes11]

2 second pause? wtf is this shit?
you know you can swing without your character moving right?

[Konda]

idk if it's 2secs exactly, but there definatly is a pause

[Demosthenes11]

how long have you played a melee? you can't logic your way out of that one yourself?
If there is a pause it's ridiculously small, less than half a second

[Foldypaws]

how long have you played a melee? you can't logic your way out of that one yourself?
If there is a pause it's ridiculously small, less than half a second

1 second for WS I believe. 2 seconds for a JA used on it's own.

[Konda]

http://shamayaasura.livejournal.com/10777.html#cutid1

That's where i first heard of it. Interesting read if you follow the links