lv99 bitch/speculation/etc thread

[Lucavi]

Seifer sliced Odin in half.

kkthx

That never made a whole lot of sense, but that's completely off-topic. Squall kicks Seifer's ass, but now Seifer can bisect a legendary Guardian? I guess anything is possible in cutscenes.

[Gredival]

Also i don't... specifically remember mentioning once why i don't camp HNMs, or even bringing it up...? What the hell are you reading?

Its because its boring FYI, just figured since we're on the subject.

You didn't; I phrased it as a condition before my question so that we could assume a specific hypothetical (that you wanted to do end game). Basically I wanted to avoid any derailing into "blah blah blah waste of three hours sitting in Aery"

Now what have you to day about the other 85% of my post?

[blowfin]

Well, I wasn't really speaking in terms of the Warcraft franchise alone, but I tried to work from the smallest timeframe that included both FFXI and WoW up until the present (2002-2009), since that's what we're talking about. That timeframe happened to only have Warcraft games.

I love my SE games, too, but to be honest, I'd be interested to see what SE would be able to come up with if they assumed Blizzard's philosophy.

Conversely don't you think Blizzard should have some more games out there with the amount of money/resources they have at their disposal?

I'm never going to play WoW, but I blew away a lot of hours on Diablo 1 and 2. Sucks that we've had to wait nearly 10 years for the next installment, let alone any totally new titles or gaming ideas from them.

SE's biggest challenge is figuring out how to make Final Fantasy as popular in the western world as it is in Japan. Hopefully XIV deals with it a bit. Then again, wasn't one of the major attractions (and factors that kept people playing) for XI the fact that it didn't attract the lowest common denominator types that WoW tends to?

[Karbuncle]

You didn't; I phrased it as a condition before my question so that we could assume a specific hypothetical (that you wanted to do end game). Basically I wanted to avoid any derailing into "blah blah blah waste of three hours sitting in Aery"

Now what have you to day about the other 85% of my post?

I'll snip it out of my post there! Here:



You can't seriously stand here and tell me this game is hard because a few idiots who don't learn how to play can't take down HNM, Can you?

Fafnir isn't hard, Training a bunch of monkeys(i.E Noobs) to kill it would be the hard part, which just basically comes back to "Its hard for Idiots who didn't learn their job" not "The game is hard".

Theres a difference between being hard for incompitent morons who probably need help putting their pants on and hard for the average joe who learns their job and at least tried.

it's like trying to say "Barbies Princess Pony adventure" is hard cause your 3 year old niece can't beat the second level. When in reality its not that the game is hard, its just that your niece doesn't have the intelligence to beat it.

With that being said, i bet you could train a group of whitegate joes to beat Fafnir in less time it would take to teach a 3 year old girl to beat a barbie game.

Edit: and by joes i mean people who actually try to learn their job, not the morons who full time Domaru cause STR R GEWD, also the niece is hypothetical.

[Kilhart]

Conversely don't you think Blizzard should have some more games out there with the amount of money/resources they have at their disposal?

I'm never going to play WoW, but I blew away a lot of hours on Diablo 1 and 2. Sucks that we've had to wait nearly 10 years for the next installment, let alone any totally new titles or gaming ideas from them.

SE's biggest challenge is figuring out how to make Final Fantasy as popular in the western world as it is in Japan. Hopefully XIV deals with it a bit. Then again, wasn't one of the major attractions (and factors that kept people playing) for XI the fact that it didn't attract the lowest common denominator types that WoW tends to?

Well, judging from the market shares and net income, I would say that Blizzard is doing a better job than SE. I would say that the reason why SE's income suffers is that while they do have a shitload of games that are cash cows and rake in a lot more revenue than Blizzard, putting so much development in so many different titles also means they have a lot more expenses, as well.

Sure, it would be nice for Blizzard to develop more games. The question is, however: is it beneficial for them to? I mean, look at WoW. People from virtually every target group of gamers subscribe to the game. A shitload of people still play WC3 (for DotA, that is). Is it worth it for Blizzard to divert the resources they use on developing their existing product lines into a completely new one? I dunno.

[Lahan]

Please only allow one job above 75.

That is the thought I had, example you can only 100 one craft.

[Corrderio]

Seifer sliced Odin in half.

kkthx

Bleh, /brainfart

[dejet]

Well, judging from the market shares and net income, I would say that Blizzard is doing a better job than SE. I would say that the reason why SE's income suffers is that while they do have a shitload of games that are cash cows and rake in a lot more revenue than Blizzard, putting so much development in so many different titles also means they have a lot more expenses, as well.

Sure, it would be nice for Blizzard to develop more games. The question is, however: is it beneficial for them to? I mean, look at WoW. People from virtually every target group of gamers subscribe to the game. A shitload of people still play WC3 (for DotA, that is). Is it worth it for Blizzard to divert the resources they use on developing their existing product lines into a completely new one? I dunno.

The thing is this, bliz does things right/great. They work with their fans, update games that are old as hell and are slow at making games.... This does not mend well with a lot of the newer hard core gamers now. They like to play a game and move onto the next one. Bliz does stuff right, and they take their time. This is a major reason that every game they make is raved about forever.

SE on the other hand does things very well and is fast at pushing games out, in my mind FFXI was better then WOW but that is just how I see it. They do things right too if you ask me. Just because thye dont take it as slow does not mean they are not as good games.

Who is right? well based off money you would have to say bliz. Then again it depends on each gamer. I myself am a SE fanboy, that is not to say I dont play bliz games, the only one to date I have not put a good chunk of time into is WoW. Their games rock... lol I still pull SC1 out from time to time.

[Yugl]

Lock the damned thread. Nothing of better value will come out of it than this. I thought the thrill of MMOs was in gaining strength with your character, not logging onto pixilated online chatrooms that you pay for each month.

BUT WHEN IT'S BEEN LIKE THIS FOR 2YRS YOU FORGET THIS KINDA STUFF.

[Nevex]

One level 99 job only would royally suck... all the greedy LS leaders would level PLD, all the leaders' e-GFs BRD, all the soloists RDM and all the relic owners their relic job. There wouldn't be much variety at all and getting into a LS, or even finding members would be a nightmare, especially if you don't want 30+ people in your LS.

[Gredival]

You can't seriously stand here and tell me this game is hard because a few idiots who don't learn how to play can't take down HNM, Can you?

Fafnir isn't hard, Training a bunch of monkeys(i.E Noobs) to kill it would be the hard part, which just basically comes back to "Its hard for Idiots who didn't learn their job" not "The game is hard".

Theres a difference between being hard for incompitent morons who probably need help putting their pants on and hard for the average joe who learns their job and at least tried.

it's like trying to say "Barbies Princess Pony adventure" is hard cause your 3 year old niece can't beat the second level.

But that's exactly point. Difficulty can't be accurately measured through non normal samples. It must be assessed by the challenge posed to an average member of its targeted audience.

I argue that FFXI the norm you measure against should be the median of the player base, not top tier HNMLS players. Not particularly dumb but not particularly skilled. Totally average.

I argue that a group consisting of median average players sitting in Whitegate right now arranged into an appropriately optimized alliance (for whatever they are fighting) could not kill a HQ King before rage, and definitely could not kill Ixion, Khimaira, Tiamat, or Lambton Worm. The heals wouldn't be fast enough, the damage wouldn't be high enough, reaction times to stop damage would be too slow, etc. etc.

I argue that your own inexperience with these monsters (duo'ing a NQ Turtle doesn't count) means you are not qualified to judge this matter appropriately.

Case in point: Manifestoes was composed of mostly above average players with decent gear. They still took 45+ once for an Aspidochelone. Now you're telling me Nidhogg wouldn't be any challenge for the run of the mill average player?

With that being said, i bet you could train a group of whitegate joes to beat Fafnir in less time it would take to teach a 3 year old girl to beat a barbie game.

Definitely untrue. You either vastly overestimate the average FFXI player or vastly underestimate Fafnir. I believe the fact you've never fought Fafnir means you have a skewed perspective.

The average level players have mostly given up on Aery, but when they show up to Aery it's a hilarious show.

[Iria]

I'd do BLU 99 if only one choice. I enjoy being BLU :3

[Kilhart]

The thing is this, bliz does things right/great. They work with their fans, update games that are old as hell and are slow at making games.... This does not mend well with a lot of the newer hard core gamers now. They like to play a game and move onto the next one. Bliz does stuff right, and they take their time. This is a major reason that every game they make is raved about forever.

SE on the other hand does things very well and is fast at pushing games out, in my mind FFXI was better then WOW but that is just how I see it. They do things right too if you ask me. Just because thye dont take it as slow does not mean they are not as good games.

Who is right? well based off money you would have to say bliz. Then again it depends on each gamer. I myself am a SE fanboy, that is not to say I dont play bliz games, the only one to date I have not put a good chunk of time into is WoW. Their games rock... lol I still pull SC1 out from time to time.

I'm personally more inclined towards playing SE games, too, but that's just because of my personal taste in games. I liked FFXI a lot better than WoW, but there's no denying that WoW had much better customer support and updating. I mean, yeah, there is no one right way to make money, as long as you do it, but like I said before, the two companies have vastly different orientations in the market, and at least from what I was taught back in marketing class, SE's philosophy isn't the best way to go in most markets.

[Sho]

That never made a whole lot of sense, but that's completely off-topic. Squall kicks Seifer's ass, but now Seifer can bisect a legendary Guardian? I guess anything is possible in cutscenes.

Think they were only showing how powerful Seifer's dark side was, then in at the same point showing Gilgamesh coming from the Interdimensional Rift after his sacrifice to save Bartz in FFV.

Oh spoilerz.

Also Gilgamesh is a badass.

[dejet]

I'm personally more inclined towards playing SE games, too, but that's just because of my personal taste in games. I liked FFXI a lot better than WoW, but there's no denying that WoW had much better customer support and updating. I mean, yeah, there is no one right way to make money, as long as you do it, but like I said before, the two companies have vastly different orientations in the market, and at least from what I was taught back in marketing class, SE's philosophy isn't the best way to go in most markets.

I think a mix would be better, wow is a turn off to some because of how easy it is. FFXI is a turn off to others because its to hard. A middle ground would be better. WoWs updating/ CS with a mix of harder gaming from FFXI. Also really I think wow gives players to much... It sounds nice on paper giving people everything but that too fails sometimes. We also know FFXI gives to little, hi mr AV.

[Karbuncle]

Deleted cause too big!.

I understand what you're saying, but the intelligence level of average players is better than you think, and kings are easier than you're letting them up to be.

Most players, MOST, will be able to adequately preform their jobs to be able to take down a king, they are not that hard.

A party of DD, a tank party, and a BLM party lets say hypothetically of all average players i fully believe would be able to kill Nidhogg or any HNM if they were briefed on the fight before hand, and had the proper time to make the right macros (Of course im refering to /ma "Cure" <tank> and etc).

Edit: on second thought maybe not Sandworm and the brigade of rage mobs, but actually Dark Ixion is one of the easier ones if you know what to expect.

[Titanss]

Did you guys cover lv99 possibly restricted to the new ares? Doubt.

If so what was the consensus?

[Nightfyre]

Definitely untrue. You either vastly overestimate the average FFXI player or vastly underestimate Fafnir. I believe the fact you've never fought Fafnir means you have a skewed perspective.

The average level players have mostly given up on Aery, but when they show up to Aery it's a hilarious show.

I believe he's cutting out the bottom 40% or so and using the median from that upper population - a group whose median is represented by a mostly AH/Sky/Dynamis geared player who at least tries to understand job mechanics and play well. Given that modified group he's correct, taking the full population into consideration you're correct.

EDIT: Then again, maybe not. Guess I misread "Whitegate Joe".

[Karbuncle]

I believe he's cutting out the bottom 40% or so and using the median from that upper population - a group whose median is represented by a mostly AH geared player who at least tries to understand job mechanics and play well. Given that modified sample he's correct, taking the full population into consideration you're correct.

EDIT: Then again, maybe not. Guess I misread "Whitegate Joe".

By whitegate joe i'm referring to someone who's at least versed on how their job is suppose to work and tries to gear it correctly.

Not the Domaru SAM with Gold Muskateer's Uchigatana and Courage Rings. or the WHM in full AF wearing Mana Ring.

Then again those two might be the average player, but...

[Cairthenn]

Did you guys cover lv99 possibly restricted to the new ares? Doubt.

If so what was the consensus?

Why would they be adding new camps to old areas and modifying current camps?