lv99 bitch/speculation/etc thread

[byte]

Exploiting ? if people are dumb it's not an exploitation.

This is the very meaning of the word exploitation. It's also this kind of mentality that promoted black slaves because they were considered "inferior". You racist.

Sounds like you are poor. If you are poor that's because you suck. Being lucky (kclub ...) will obviously concern much less than 40% of everyone.

40% of people who are exceptionally wealthy. Learn to read.
I'm above average and I have good gear besides relics. However, I'm close enough to the top to see how most of them got there.

[AidenCarby]

This is the very meaning of the word exploitation. It's also this kind of mentality that promoted black slaves because they were considered "inferior". You racist.

Incoming shitstorm. Hit the deck boys D:

[Malacite]

He's right though. Taking advantage of someone, for whatever the cause/reason/purpose, is by definition exploitation.

[pchan]

You racist.

No, and you look mad and jealous/envious about other's success. Saying taht 40% of people that are wealthy got their money from Kclub or other super lucky item (=none, only Kclub can do that) is stupid and is proof that you don't undertsand how the game works. The amount of information required to completely understand every aspect of the game is huge, rich people are people that managed to exploit a somewhat secret/not well known/hard way to build cash. You don't make money out of a BCNM or a NM, 2004 concept. BCNM=easy, easy=low money. That's basic FFXI. Farming =long=hard=money.

[Gergall]

It's morally justified to get slaves to build you a pyramid because afterall, you're the one telling them what to do, so you're doing the hard work right?

Analogy fails for 2 reasons: First, in FFXI the person who organizes and runs the whole event still participates in the event as well ("builds the pyramid")

Second, I can only assume you have no idea what its like to set up an einherjar run twice a week compared to just showing up. It's a major hassle.

[pchan]

He's right though. Taking advantage of someone, for whatever the cause/reason/purpose, is by definition exploitation.

Not when you are free to not do it. Nothing is forcing you to do dynamis with X person.

[Konda]

You don't make money out of a BCNM or a NM, 2004 concept.

It's quite easy to fund a relic by NM camping/bcnm, you just need to know which NMs to camp.


Edit: and the most sucessful people in the game are the ones who have the most time to play it.

You can't make gil/camp NMs/dynamis/all the other hardcore shit if you have some sort of reasonable social life or real life commitments like work/school/university.

[byte]

The amount of information required to completely understand every aspect of the game is huge

You said it yourself. Do you really think all "rich" players understand completely every aspect of the game? You're the mad one.

Finding an unexplored but profitable niche is luck. You're not guaranteed to find one even if you look hard for it.

Saying that the only way luck influences the game is if you get a big drop is completely false.

Not when you are free to not do it. Nothing is forcing you to do dynamis with X person.

You are forced if you want to make progress. The game is set up so that a few can exploit the many. There are very few LS out there that have truly fair lotting.

Here is an example.. SE could have just as easily added dynamis currency like Ichor from Einherjar and distributed it evenly to all that attended. Drops could be bought the same way. Instead they opted for a system which thrives on exploitation. You can't do dynamis and not make a good profit unless you really, really suck. That profit can't be made alone.

[Xavier]

Jesus Christ, can all of you walk on water too?

I don't know how these forums are staying afloat with this much ego weighing them down.

[Tsuko_Asura]

I can't believe someone actually compared wealth in real life to wealth in XI.

Then again, I don't even know why I'm trying to get this point across to you idiots. The poor will always think they're poor because they aren't as lucky or privileged as the rich.

[lolwut]

It's morally justified to get slaves to build you a pyramid because afterall, you're the one telling them what to do, so you're doing the hard work right?

Stupid argument. Slaves are forced into labor, as far as I know no one forces anyone to join a shell where the leader collects all the currency or lines up first for the big tickets. Also, leaders participate in every event, and put in the same 'work' as the rest of the shell. They farm pops, tank mobs, drop what they're doing for claims and /wrists during windows like every other member, plus the extra work of keeping everything moving in their downtime, while the members are free to do w/e they want.

As far as the time issue, I live with my gf of two years and work 40+ a week in a managerial level job for a financial company in addition to being an officer in my shell. It works because we're event focused instead of hardcore hnm, and I understand rudimentary time management.

Excuses are excuses imo. Yes drop rates suck (I spent months of popping Kirin twice a week on my own dime to get blood cuisses, and Odin's a whore so I can't move up the ebody list since he never drops them) but I still gear well and play well without baaaaawing about how it's other people's fault, and low man things successfully.

FF isn't real life. Shit's easy, and everyone starts on a level playing field that race/gender/class/nepotism make impossible in irl. You can compare it capitalism or slavery or whatever other irrelevant analogy you can come up with, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a game, and operates within pretty finite parameters that have been mathed to death.

Play it well or don't, just don't QQ about it when you choose to do it badly.

[lolwut]

I can't believe someone actually compared wealth in real life to wealth in XI.

Then again, I don't even know why I'm trying to get this point across to you idiots. The poor will always think they're poor because they aren't as lucky or privileged as the rich.

I wish I'd seen this before I bothered to write out that last post, I could have just said "^ qft" and went on with my day.

[Vodou]

This is the very meaning of the word exploitation. It's also this kind of mentality that promoted black slaves because they were considered "inferior". You racist.

No. Unless you are using the word promote incorrectly and instead meant justify. The former implies it was used in advance of large scale slavery and the latter means implies it was used after slavery was already well established.

White people (europeon and american) considered ALL landless and poor people to be illiterate and stupid and worthy of exploitation for "their own good."

This is why terms like white trash, dumb hick, the stereotypes of in-bred white mountain folk, the toothless dregs of the London slums, the dispising of the Scots and Irish, and the hatred of the early Italian immigrants came from. (You did know these are from white culture, yes?) This is where the term of the 'masses' from the French ("let them eat cake"), the Russians (Marx, aka the 'sheep') and Orwell ('1984') was legitimized.

The concept that black people were inferior occurred long after slavery was established as a means of legitimacy. It was never the cause.

Equating poverty with stupidity has been a common English, et al tradition for centuries. Equating it with race was a means to justify it in the US when the political climate turned hostile.



All said, it's repulsive that you equate slavery with dynamis runs.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Why are you people even arguing with Byte?

[FailureMidgard]

Not when you are free to not do it. Nothing is forcing you to do dynamis with X person.

You are forced if you want to make progress. The game is set up so that a few can exploit the many. There are very few LS out there that have truly fair lotting.

To start with, whether something is an exploitation entirely depends on the point of view you take.
I'll start with the fact that we've sold Duelist's Chapeau for 10m, Duelist's Tabard for 10m, and Duelists Chapeau-1 for 27m. I could continue to list off items, but if a leader is taking very few items for himself, but taking currency, and letting 1 member lot 47million gil worth of items, would you still feel it's exploiting? Oh, you don't think those items are worth that much? Tough shit, I don't think currency is worth what people pay for it either, but I guess we don't drive the economy, eh?
For the record, I am playing devil's advocate a bit here...I personally think that gil value of these items should come into play, as well as gil value of currency, and then should be split accordingly, and if a red mage doesn't want his chapeau that much, he can fuck off and let it freelot to people with lvl 1 red mages also, 'cause he's being a greedy fuckwad if he wants the rdm hat, and still wants deny currency to people getting nothing. Ok, moving on past my opinions...
Too many people jump on the "exploitation" bandwagon. Don't get me wrong, I think it happens a lot, more than it should...but it really goes past currency and you have to look at everything as a whole.

Besides that though, there are people that -want- their leader(s) to finish a relic. If a leader is honest and forthcoming, and people understand he is getting a larger gil value, but not using it for profit. Maybe it's still technically exploitation, but I'd say it's analogous to a white lie vs a "normal" lie...they are both lying, but 1 is generally accepted, and 1 isn't.

I can't believe someone actually compared wealth in real life to wealth in XI.

Then again, I don't even know why I'm trying to get this point across to you idiots. The poor will always think they're poor because they aren't as lucky or privileged as the rich.

Agree. You get out what you put in, in most everything in life.

Stupid argument. Slaves are forced into labor, as far as I know no one forces anyone to join a shell where the leader collects all the currency or lines up first for the big tickets. Also, leaders participate in every event, and put in the same 'work' as the rest of the shell. They farm pops, tank mobs, drop what they're doing for claims and /wrists during windows like every other member, plus the extra work of keeping everything moving in their downtime, while the members are free to do w/e they want.

Sorry, don't agree with you. Slaves aren't forced to work, they are persuaded to work and their options are to work or die. They still have the choice. If someone gives you a gun and tells you to kill 20 other people or you will be killed, you still retain the choice. A choice being seemingly easier to make does not change the fact that it is a choice. Slaves chose to work because really, most people would rather work and survive than die. It's not a huge stretch of the imagination to realize that. Furthermore, in a game, most common players would rather do Dynamis and get some AF and not see any currency, than not do Dynamis. In the end, yes, there's some exploitation, but there is mutual benefit as well, and people can't go out and find a perfect Dynamis shell whenever they want.
In both cases, nobody is being forced to do anything, and yet the best possibility that they can see would be negative from an outsider's perspective - but it is the best choice from their perspective.

[Snick]

Couldn't agree with Failure more.

To sorta contribute:

More work = More rewards. Yeah, ok, there is some luck aspect to it too, but whatever.

Compared to others, my shit is gimp, I am well aware of this, but I at least try, and I for sure don't make excuses. I simply don't have the time to do events 7 days a week, and I have no interest in HNMs either, and that is fine by me.

Yes people can be assholes, but if you can take criticism you'll realize that most of the time they are trying to help you. I think I'm off on a totally different tangent now, and will now proceed to continue lurking.

[AidenCarby]

So I have 20mil+ in gear? Shit I'm moving on up, to the east side~

[Yabby]

Jesus Christ, can all of you walk on water too?

I don't know how these forums are staying afloat with this much ego weighing them down.

ego's float.

http://www.armadalinkshell.com/yabai/pics/BGpic.jpg

[FailureMidgard]

So I have 20mil+ in gear? Shit I'm moving on up, to the east side~

If you want to value my relic as 150mil or w/e the fuck it is, ya, you do. We trade D.Chap for 667 Bronze. So, when you lot a D.Chap, keep that in mind before you point too much to "exploitation". Maybe your shell leader could switch it up, split currency equally (you'll get ~10-12 currency from a good Xarcabard probably...1/3rd of which are bynes), and then when a D.Chap drops, he can sell it out of shell, or make you pay 667 bronze.

[Rocl]

Jesus Christ, can all of you walk on water too?

I don't know how these forums are staying afloat with this much ego weighing them down.

I'm already level 99 RDM, so I just cast Float.