lv99 bitch/speculation/etc thread

[Nightmarelord]

ppl whining bout not having shit? DO WORK THEN. i didnt have an ls, i didnt farm, i didnt rmt. i didnt have luck. but i had all the shit i wanted for sam. (excluding a yoichi to go along with my amano.. got bored with the game and bailed out) what gives?

[AidenCarby]

If you want to value my relic as 150mil or w/e the fuck it is, ya, you do. We trade D.Chap for 667 Bronze. So, when you lot a D.Chap, keep that in mind before you point too much to "exploitation". Maybe your shell leader could switch it up, split currency equally (you'll get ~10-12 currency from a good Xarcabard probably...1/3rd of which are bynes), and then when a D.Chap drops, he can sell it out of shell, or make you pay 667 bronze.

Might as well, ridill hit the ground this morning, we're out of buyers lol. Looking for abody/ebody/ridill/nhead etcetc buyers, hope levi people have gil :/

[lolwut]

Sorry, don't agree with you. Slaves aren't forced to work, they are persuaded to work and their options are to work or die. They still have the choice. If someone gives you a gun and tells you to kill 20 other people or you will be killed, you still retain the choice. A choice being seemingly easier to make does not change the fact that it is a choice. Slaves chose to work because really, most people would rather work and survive than die. It's not a huge stretch of the imagination to realize that. Furthermore, in a game, most common players would rather do Dynamis and get some AF and not see any currency, than not do Dynamis. In the end, yes, there's some exploitation, but there is mutual benefit as well, and people can't go out and find a perfect Dynamis shell whenever they want.
In both cases, nobody is being forced to do anything, and yet the best possibility that they can see would be negative from an outsider's perspective - but it is the best choice from their perspective.

I think you need to read up on the definition of 'force'. PROTIP: It isn't the removal of all options.

When it comes to having a viable alternative to choose however, comparing slavery to a dynamis shell is (yet again) possibly the dumbest thing I have ever read on these forums.

Even if I were to play along with such a nonsensical suggestion, it's not like you have to join an existing leader-take-all dynamis shell or the shell leader will ban you from ever accessing FFXI again. If you don't want to be in a leader take all shell, make a sell/split shell, or a rotating sponsor shell.

If you are given the choice: "Be a slave and get food from me or start your own farm and feed yourself" and you still choose to stay, you are not a slave, you're a moron.

[seiji]

Not when you are free to not do it. Nothing is forcing you to do dynamis with X person.

yeah just all go solo dyna (or do it with our 3 friends)

There's a reason the asshole types get to be in the position of taking it all: they work harder. They set the events, the do the planning, the drag the sheep along by the leash. I'd like to hope there aren't that many people who are so stupid as to not understand where they fall in the food chain when they enter a ls and do nothing but provide another body.

The followers know the deal they're getting into. They get lesser end of the deal, but in exchange they just show up for the event, follow directions, and warp out at the end. If they moved beyond wanting to the be the ones with relics and krakens to the point of putting in that effort to run the show themselves, they'd get it.

The game's not designed to make everyone equal, you can sit around doing random crap hoping to get lucky or you can put in real time/effort. I don't understand why people bitch about it instead of taking initiative.

Leaders getting more because they lead (and do more) is OK, leaders getting everything is not!
Don't forget that leaders need(ed) the sheeps to get things done.

It's morally justified to get slaves to build you a pyramid because afterall, you're the one telling them what to do, so you're doing the hard work right?

pyramis were not build by slaves. (besides that you're kinda right)

No, and you look mad and jealous/envious about other's success. Saying taht 40% of people that are wealthy got their money from Kclub or other super lucky item (=none, only Kclub can do that) is stupid and is proof that you don't undertsand how the game works. The amount of information required to completely understand every aspect of the game is huge, rich people are people that managed to exploit a somewhat secret/not well known/hard way to build cash. You don't make money out of a BCNM or a NM, 2004 concept. BCNM=easy, easy=low money. That's basic FFXI. Farming =long=hard=money.

Because selling salvage item is not big money based on luck?

[FailureMidgard]

I think you need to read up on the definition of 'force'. PROTIP: It isn't the removal of all options.

When it comes to having a viable alternative to choose however, comparing slavery to a dynamis shell is (yet again) possibly the dumbest thing I have ever read on these forums.

Even if I were to play along with such a nonsensical suggestion, it's not like you have to join an existing leader-take-all dynamis shell or the shell leader will ban you from ever accessing FFXI again. If you don't want to be in a leader take all shell, make a sell/split shell, or a rotating sponsor shell.

If you are given the choice: "Be a slave and get food from me or start your own farm and feed yourself" and you still choose to stay, you are not a slave, you're a moron.

I'd argue the entire idea of a viable alternative is pretty stupid, and is a thing that only really exists to the unprivileged masses. There is always a best, "different but equal" is generally an illusion.

In FFXI, on these forums, when we use the term "viable alternative" we usually mean "it sucks, but doesn't suck as much as the other options". PCC is a "viable alternative" to an Ancient Torque, but sorry, it's inferior.

I'm not debating that it's stupid to compare Dynamis to slavery, of course it is, but your response was just as, if not more stupid. But let's use your idiotic example. If someone chooses to stay they are a moron? What if they have literally no money...they can work for food and shelter...I mean, be a slave, or they can go purchase their own with no money...right, sounds perfect. If they happen to die from the elements or starvation, it's because they made the right choice, right? And sorry on the definition of force, you're right, what I just said right now has historically been 1 of many causes of slavery (or similar situations).

Moving back to FFXI, let's go tell these people that are lvl 70 on their first job joining a Dynamis shell that they should really just start their own shell with a group of friends - put together 500k, pay for the glass, etc. Shouting in Whitegate is a -great- way to find people too, right? I know when I started getting into FFXI endgame semi-seriously, looking for Dynamis shells/etc, the only ones I found were leader takes all currency, and I didn't have a clue how hard it was, or where to find people. Trying to make my own shell sounded like a worse option that not going - oh, as a side note, not going sounded like a worse option than going in a leader takes all shell. I was "forced" into a leader takes all shell. See how that works? The best option available is being forced, by your definition.

[NynJa]

Get with the times
-Aurik to me when SE changed Thief Knife


I think this applies here, with all the bitching and moaning. Theres nothing but a few sporadic details to what changes may come, and theres FOURTY pages of bitching and moaning. No one knows what may really happen, seeing as how down the line SE can modify their very own plans, depending how things truly turn out. At the end of the day, no one on these boards has any say to what SE does with FFXI, so you might as well get with the times, or quit.

I made a point that seemingly went unnoticed...people crying how the jump from 70-99 will go very rapidly, if you check the archives, the game jumped from 50 cap to 75 cap in about a 1 year period, a one year period where "epic" xp was 5k/hr, before xp rings existed, before xp bonuses existed, before the xp gap was lowered. If TNL's from 76-99 will be of epic proportions the playerbase wont have anyone to blame but themselves. If people keep boasting how they're making 25-30k k/hr at MMJSP/Colibri, making 40++++k/hr smn burning, how do you think SE would react to such statements? They dont want people capping out 75-80 in 1 day. Same reason they put stupid JP midnight cockblocks, to milk content.

I'm looking forward to the patch. The game has kinda gotten stale, probably because I'm not Fafnir's slave like most ppl here are, but lately all I do is Dynamis, Einherjar, and antlion ENM. The only thing I'm worried about is the new augmentation quest. Field parchments were mostly a bust from day one, because of the sheer randomness (18 Dusk Gloves, best aug DEX+2), Synergy mods are mostly a bust as well IMO (the Ebon armors are mostly weaksauce, Evolith's being overly specific, weapon/armor etchings generally failed), whoss only saving grace was the fact you could redo etchings if they suck. I have a feeling the "80 different types" are going to be like parchments...toss your weapon and cross your fingers.

[lolwut]

I'd argue the entire idea of a viable alternative is pretty stupid, and is a thing that only really exists to the unprivileged masses. There is always a best, "different but equal" is generally an illusion.

In FFXI, on these forums, when we use the term "viable alternative" we usually mean "it sucks, but doesn't suck as much as the other options". PCC is a "viable alternative" to an Ancient Torque, but sorry, it's inferior.

And staying in a shell where you're not getting out what you put in is an inferior choice as well. We're on the same side of that particular argument, I never advocated settling for less, I just said if people decide to settle for less they shouldn't bitch about it.

I'm not debating that it's stupid to compare Dynamis to slavery, of course it is, but your response was just as, if not more stupid. But let's use your idiotic example. If someone chooses to stay they are a moron? What if they have literally no money...they can work for food and shelter...I mean, be a slave, or they can go purchase their own with no money...right, sounds perfect. If they happen to die from the elements or starvation, it's because they made the right choice, right? And sorry on the definition of force, you're right, what I just said right now has historically been 1 of many causes of slavery (or similar situations).

Because all slaves die off once they aren't slaves anymore, as opposed to say, getting paying work elsewhere until they have the opportunity to have something of their own? You keep narrowing the options in such a myopic manner to suit your argument, but it doesn't hold water in practice. Working for food and shelter with no monetary compensation is not, and never has been the only option. You make it sound as if the underground railroad had a mass grave at the end of it.

Moving back to FFXI, let's go tell these people that are lvl 70 on their first job joining a Dynamis shell that they should really just start their own shell with a group of friends - put together 500k, pay for the glass, etc. Shouting in Whitegate is a -great- way to find people too, right? I know when I started getting into FFXI endgame semi-seriously, looking for Dynamis shells/etc, the only ones I found were leader takes all currency, and I didn't have a clue how hard it was, or where to find people. Trying to make my own shell sounded like a worse option that not going - oh, as a side note, not going sounded like a worse option than going in a leader takes all shell. I was "forced" into a leader takes all shell. See how that works? The best option available is being forced, by your definition.

The best option would be to go with that shell while you work towards another option, much like you did. You weren't forced to stay past the point where you stood to gain more than you had to lose in the system, and by putting in the effort to improve you reached the point where you are today.

Again, the point I made when I started this conversation is that you can achieve whatever you want in this game by hard work. Paying your dues in dynamis to get the gear/knowledge/skill you need to make your own group is a part of that hard work.

My complaint was/is with the people who are too lazy to ever make that next step and become self sufficient, and claim things aren't possible, when in fact they haven't bothered to put in the effort do those things themselves.

[Cairthenn]

ITT: I'm a slave.

Going to another thread to regain my freedom.

[lolwut]

ITT: I'm a slave.

Going to another thread to regain my freedom.

Demand reparations.

[thatwasnifty]

SE will never give you your forty acres and a chocobo.

[FailureMidgard]

And staying in a shell where you're not getting out what you put in is an inferior choice as well. We're on the same side of that particular argument, I never advocated settling for less, I just said if people decide to settle for less they shouldn't bitch about it.

And yet, there's still a gray area here, especially before you leap to exploitation. People always have, and always will settle for less, the important thing to most people isn't the perfect situation, but rather just enough to get what they want out of it. At the very least, remove the negative connotations from exploitation, because our entire society and capitalism are built around this idea.

Because all slaves die off once they aren't slaves anymore, as opposed to say, getting paying work elsewhere until they have the opportunity to have something of their own? You keep narrowing the options in such a myopic manner to suit your argument, but it doesn't hold water in practice. Working for food and shelter with no monetary compensation is not, and never has been the only option. You make it sound as if the underground railroad had a mass grave at the end of it.

No, but I'm saying that is a possibility...also, get off the American slavery thing, it isn't the only time slavery existed, it isn't the only form, and furthermore, even there, the underground railroad wasn't for everyone.

Again, the point I made when I started this conversation is that you can achieve whatever you want in this game by hard work. Paying your dues in dynamis to get the gear/knowledge/skill you need to make your own group is a part of that hard work.

My complaint was/is with the people who are too lazy to ever make that next step and become self sufficient, and claim things aren't possible, when in fact they haven't bothered to put in the effort do those things themselves.

And some people would rather be mindless sheep. Hell, if you ask most leaders of a successful fair shell, I bet you a vast majority of them would also rather get to be a mindless sheep for a change. It's relaxing and can be fun to sit back, play the game, and not have to worry about random bullshit for a change. Don't get me wrong, I like to be successful, and do the best I can, but there's nothing wrong with people not wanting to make the next step, IMO. If everyone did, in fact, the game as a whole would probably be awful. I'm pretty sure there's some cliche dealing with everyone trying to be a leader being a bad thing - well, it is.
All that being said, I do agree that said people shouldn't claim it isn't possible, or complain about it being unfair...if they feel that way, they should change their situation.

[AidenCarby]

SE will never give you your forty acres and a chocobo.

But we wuz promised a chicken in everypot and a chocobo in every stable :/ whenz we gon' be free boss?

[lolwut]

And yet, there's still a gray area here, especially before you leap to exploitation. People always have, and always will settle for less, the important thing to most people isn't the perfect situation, but rather just enough to get what they want out of it. At the very least, remove the negative connotations from exploitation, because our entire society and capitalism are built around this idea.

If people are happy with settling, more power to them. I only take issue with the ones who bitch about their personal station, and act like there's nothing they can do to change it.

No, but I'm saying that is a possibility...also, get off the American slavery thing, it isn't the only time slavery existed, it isn't the only form, and furthermore, even there, the underground railroad wasn't for everyone.

Granted, but as that was the variant of slavery that was originally remarked on there didn't seem to be a necessary basis to expand the scope. Would you prefer to use Moorish slavery, or Jewish slavery? Would it in any way change the underlying argument?

[pchan]

Because selling salvage item is not big money based on luck?

No, it's not. If people were able to freely enter salvage solo with a 10x worse drop rate you wouldn't see idiots like you complaining about luck+salvage.

[Aksannyi]

Yes they would, people would surely still complain about how shitty the drop rates are, and rightfully so. And yes, drops = luck, no amount of skill in killing anything is going to make it more likely to drop what you want/need.

[Lovex]

Yes they would, people would surely still complain about how shitty the drop rates are, and rightfully so. And yes, drops = luck, no amount of skill in killing anything is going to make it more likely to drop what you want/need.

that^

And wut?


What's going with this thread. witide.

[Malacite]

You said it yourself. Do you really think all "rich" players understand completely every aspect of the game? You're the mad one.

Finding an unexplored but profitable niche is luck. You're not guaranteed to find one even if you look hard for it.

Saying that the only way luck influences the game is if you get a big drop is completely false.



You are forced if you want to make progress. The game is set up so that a few can exploit the many. There are very few LS out there that have truly fair lotting.

Here is an example.. SE could have just as easily added dynamis currency like Ichor from Einherjar and distributed it evenly to all that attended. Drops could be bought the same way. Instead they opted for a system which thrives on exploitation. You can't do dynamis and not make a good profit unless you really, really suck. That profit can't be made alone.

If they'd only done it that way, Dynamis would have been a lot more fun and relics would still be rare because of the dedication required. But at least everyone would have a fair shake at it instead of the super rich or corrupt/greedy sack holders.

[Konda]

so THF/RDM or /COR will be able to refresh people....

there goes any hope of them being able to DD or do something constructive. THF might be even more of a TH/backline bitch :/

[Nightmarelord]

so THF/RDM or /COR will be able to refresh people....

there goes any hope of them being able to DD or do something constructive. THF might be even more of a TH/backline bitch :/

thf will go on strike if they get stuck on the backline.

"NO MELEE NO TH" will be on the picket signs.

[Corrderio]

so THF/RDM or /COR will be able to refresh people....

there goes any hope of them being able to DD or do something constructive. THF might be even more of a TH/backline bitch :/

Wonder how gimped Evoker's Roll will be on /COR...