lv99 bitch/speculation/etc thread

[Fridell]

ITT: BG completes its metamorphosis into Allakhazam.

Yes...

[drwaffles]

Yes...

Actually that was sort of inspired by your post, unless I misunderstood it.

[Fridell]

Woooshed :D

[Titanss]

ITT: BG completes its metamorphosis into Allakhazam.

Actually this section has already been this for awhile.

Except the Random Question thread. Which in my opinion should have been the only topic here for the last year.

Eh Completed Relic thread is good too just because of the gear talk. (But that is all)

[Fridell]

Actually BG been more like Alla since just before the "New Advanced" made it's appearance. There isn't much nice new and entertaining information these days, will definitely change after the updates to LV99 are done though.

Now it's more just about people bitching for minor increases in performance in-game wise in a more aggressive way then before. Which in a way is understandable since so many of us been playing since forever but the true BG mentality is lost in my opinion, more useless bitching then good bitching

[Titanss]

Actually if you want good information go to Media. There is way more advanced XI discussion there than this section.

Like I said this section is good for speculation and the RQ thread.

[Fridell]

Yea Media is my favorite, same as how the old "Standard" was.

[mdkuser]

Salvage, Limbus, Merit, Ein, Dynamis are all the same, I have no idea why you think mnk does anything in salvage differently. Sam and War are better on all.

No experience with WARs in salvage, but plenty with mnk and sams. A tanking sam can't do more than 80-90% of a monk/nin ( due to several factors: lack of haste, PDT defender etc). mnk/nin not only does more damage but takes less damage...And if the sam can hasso the monk can /war and still destroys your sam. I'd be interested to see your math in what's better threads..

practical numbers: if you count misses , double attacks, caped str/attack/acc, gekko= 80-85% of asuran fists on lv 82 mobs, on average.

monk averages: <7 rounds till 100 TP, D55 weapon, 2.25 attacks per rounds counting DA and Kicks ( I could get the exact numbers later they're on my spread sheets), and with 60% hate, gets TP in 15-16 seconds. normal melee/ws split is 35%WS/65%melee with destroyer, 40%/60% with hades (+1).

sam with hasso averages: 4.6 rounds till 100 TP ( 6 hit builds), 1.1 hits/rounds, D75 weapon, and get TP in 11+ seconds , on average. Meditate is 1.6* average weapon skill at best. normal split is 65%melee/35%ws with hagun, 60%/40% with onimaru.

I can provide you the actual figures because i have spread sheets to compute them.

ignore skill chains and counterstance: with equivalent gear, mnk owns sam. discuss? and if you allow sam to use speed belt and dusk+1, allow monk to use shenlongs ( same price).

Furthermore, War/Sam and Sam/War not only beat, but destroy your mnk/nin.

fucking lol. seigan war/sam=monk/nin in term of damage ( this comes from parses no maths), sam/war(seigan, hagun) is 10-20% behind... there is no situation where sam can hasso and mnk cannot /war...you cannot seriously compare a mnk/nin to a war/sam in term of damage..

I've seen you many times make unjustified claims about sam but come on, you're trying too hard to justify SAM. SAM is not even the 2nd best dd ( for Lv < 83 mobs ). post your maths in the what's better thread it will be my pleasure to destroy your arguments.

[Neosutra]

Agreeing with Mdkuser lol. Cant believe you just tried to discredit MNK in the one place they are truly king: Salvage. Taking away everything that Mdkuser just said (which was all accurate), you still have COUNTERSTANCE, which owns the shit out of anything any other job offers for the first few floors of salvage. Add to that being one of the best (if not best) all round DDs in salvage, penance/subtle blow, invigorate, focus, and other melees get left in the dust. I've tanked with amano Sams and Bravura wars in salvage (both with about the best gear possible) and niether of them "blew my mnk out of the water", they kept up in damage, but mnk is still a rediculous beast in salvage, and a high ranking king in just most low man event situations.

[Neosutra]

Double post.

[Kaylia]

Mnk is definitively the one melee I wanted to have when I did salvage. Damage on early floor, penance on bosses, lot of evade/counter...you can do salvage without them, but they definitively made thing easier, a lot more than any other melee job.

The only thing mnk/nin was lacking is something to pull hate quickly, but it's something you can usually deal with anyway (talking about hate reset from charm/missile, when a mage cast too early or when you somehow link the whole floor in SSR)

[FailureMidgard]

No experience with WARs in salvage, but plenty with mnk and sams. A tanking sam can't do more than 80-90% of a monk/nin ( due to several factors: lack of haste, PDT defender etc). mnk/nin not only does more damage but takes less damage...And if the sam can hasso the monk can /war and still destroys your sam. I'd be interested to see your math in what's better threads..

practical numbers: if you count misses , double attacks, caped str/attack/acc, gekko= 80-85% of asuran fists on lv 82 mobs, on average.

monk averages: <7 rounds till 100 TP, D55 weapon, 2.25 attacks per rounds counting DA and Kicks ( I could get the exact numbers later they're on my spread sheets), and with 60% hate, gets TP in 15-16 seconds. normal melee/ws split is 35%WS/65%melee with destroyer, 40%/60% with hades (+1).

sam with hasso averages: 4.6 rounds till 100 TP ( 6 hit builds), 1.1 hits/rounds, D75 weapon, and get TP in 11+ seconds , on average. Meditate is 1.6* average weapon skill at best. normal split is 65%melee/35%ws with hagun, 60%/40% with onimaru.

I can provide you the actual figures because i have spread sheets to compute them.

ignore skill chains and counterstance: with equivalent gear, mnk owns sam. discuss? and if you allow sam to use speed belt and dusk+1, allow monk to use shenlongs ( same price).



fucking lol. seigan war/sam=monk/nin in term of damage ( this comes from parses no maths), sam/war(seigan, hagun) is 10-20% behind... there is no situation where sam can hasso and mnk cannot /war...you cannot seriously compare a mnk/nin to a war/sam in term of damage..

I've seen you many times make unjustified claims about sam but come on, you're trying too hard to justify SAM. SAM is not even the 2nd best dd ( for Lv < 83 mobs ). post your maths in the what's better thread it will be my pleasure to destroy your arguments.

Agreeing with Mdkuser lol. Cant believe you just tried to discredit MNK in the one place they are truly king: Salvage. Taking away everything that Mdkuser just said (which was all accurate), you still have COUNTERSTANCE, which owns the shit out of anything any other job offers for the first few floors of salvage. Add to that being one of the best (if not best) all round DDs in salvage, penance/subtle blow, invigorate, focus, and other melees get left in the dust. I've tanked with amano Sams and Bravura wars in salvage (both with about the best gear possible) and niether of them "blew my mnk out of the water", they kept up in damage, but mnk is still a rediculous beast in salvage, and a high ranking king in just most low man event situations.

First off Neo, you have absolutely no argument, at least Mdk has something, but sorry, ever since they added a chest at the start, salvage is no different at all from any other event. And lol @ keeping up with an Amano Sam...he either sucks, or you took gear over him. And Mdk, last I checked, you can't switch subjobs mid salvage. So, let me ask you, how often do you use mnk/war there? I ride the fuck out of Hasso on almost everything except chariots and a few NMs. See, I don't need to go to a mog house to switch between Seigan and Hasso. Do you realize this? No, because you're counting a Mnk at higher haste than a Sam, still.
This is the problem with -all- the math you and Pchan try to do. You use incorrect assumptions (such as having a moogle inside salvage), to attempt to incorrectly prove your point.
Reading this thread makes me wonder...Mnk damage on early floor? WTF? There's a box now you know, 2 weapon cells in it...
Salvage is not different than limbus or merits, etc. Well, except for not getting to choose a different subjob every fight. So yea, Sam can switch between hasso and seigan, mnk picks a sub and sticks to it. Stop trying to create fake or outdated scenarios.
Feel free to post the math mdk, I'll rip apart your assumptions and not even look at the math past that. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing wrong with bringing a mnk to salvage, or limbus, or whatever, but I'm sorry, mnk isn't all you want it to be, and salvage isn't different than any other event.

[drwaffles]

First off Neo, you have absolutely no argument, at least Mdk has something, but sorry, ever since they added a chest at the start, salvage is no different at all from any other event. And lol @ keeping up with an Amano Sam...he either sucks, or you took gear over him. And Mdk, last I checked, you can't switch subjobs mid salvage. So, let me ask you, how often do you use mnk/war there? I ride the fuck out of Hasso on almost everything except chariots and a few NMs. See, I don't need to go to a mog house to switch between Seigan and Hasso. Do you realize this? No, because you're counting a Mnk at higher haste than a Sam, still.
This is the problem with -all- the math you and Pchan try to do. You use incorrect assumptions (such as having a moogle inside salvage), to attempt to incorrectly prove your point.
Reading this thread makes me wonder...Mnk damage on early floor? WTF? There's a box now you know, 2 weapon cells in it...
Salvage is not different than limbus or merits, etc. Well, except for not getting to choose a different subjob every fight. So yea, Sam can switch between hasso and seigan, mnk picks a sub and sticks to it. Stop trying to create fake or outdated scenarios.
Feel free to post the math mdk, I'll rip apart your assumptions and not even look at the math past that. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing wrong with bringing a mnk to salvage, or limbus, or whatever, but I'm sorry, mnk isn't all you want it to be, and salvage isn't different than any other event.

This. I do Salvage with an Amano SAM, and there's no way in all holy hell any kind of MNK (Shenlong's or not, as if that makes a massive difference anyway) will ever come close to that kind of raw damage output. I have MNK levelled; I love playing MNK and think it's certainly a competitive melee, but unlike some of you I'm not deluding myself based on fanboyism and mathematics so absolutely fundamentally flawed you might as well post a picture of a unicorn with baguettes for legs and call that the evidence for your ridiculous assertions.

[Fridell]

The Fanboyism is towards SAM, no one can justify saying otherwise.

While on the Salvage and SAM subject, groups who can't use 2 SAM/WAR fulltime Hasso (yes on boss) sucks.

[Neosutra]

Failure you have been so ungodly butthurt in every thread I have read recently I have to assume something is going on in your life. There is no way you can be this much of a little bitch without cause..

Your wife cheating on you?

Not getting any?

Bad case of achne?

What's going on man? You can talk to Neo, I'm here to listen.

And my arugment was an echo of Mdkuser's statements with the addition of saying how much counterstance adds as well to the first few floors.

The starter chest at the beginning changes nothing beyond ensuring melees without h2h skill arent useless for the first few minutes.

But please, keep raging at us "dumb people that bring mnks to salvage". Please god PLEASE be more stupid than you already are.

[drwaffles]

Failure you have been so ungodly butthurt in every thread I have read recently I have to assume something is going on in your life. There is no way you can be this much of a little bitch without cause..

Your wife cheating on you?

Not getting any?

Bad case of achne?

What's going on man? You can talk to Neo, I'm here to listen.

And my arugment was an echo of Mdkuser's statements with the addition of saying how much counterstance adds as well to the first few floors.

The starter chest at the beginning changes nothing beyond ensuring melees without h2h skill arent useless for the first few minutes.

But please, keep raging at us "dumb people that bring mnks to salvage". Please god PLEASE be more stupid than you already are.

You are so fucking mad.

[AidenCarby]

Sam is played out lol, everyone and their mother has it leveled. Not to mention optimizing samurai is way easier than maxing out monk. With that said, my pup will own all you noobs.

[Nevex]

Do you realize that damage output is not everything? Overall performance =/= parser results.

Even if SAM parses ahead of MNK it doesn't mean that it's the optimal melee job in Salvage.
MNK's defensive abilities couple with decent damage output will outperform SAM in Salvage anyday, sorry. Except in Bhaflau Remnants if you're not planning to kill the boss, I guess.

Just to mention an example, with MNKs you can give the first JA cell to a SCH if you have one in your group in Arrapago without worrying too much about damage loss, something that you can't afford to do with SAM which is nearly useless without JA unlocked.

lol@Salvage not being different from other events. Last time I checked Gear/JA/stats/magic restrictions play a huge part in Salvage when it comes to jobs' performance. And Salvage is not just about the boss floor when everything is unlocked, first floors do matter.
The one advantage SAM has over MNK is Seigan, until MNK gets SJ/magic cells.

I seriously hope they give some other melee job a few overpowered abilities so this SAMophile mania can be put to an end.

[Kaylia]

Eh, there is so many unspecified parameters that arguing on either side is stupid at the moment. Which zone, sch or not, perfectly geared melee with relic or not, how many melees...

A good sam will do better dmg than mnk in salvage imo, but killing everything in 100 minutes isn't really an issue in the first place. Mnk on the other hand has a much better survivability, and penance/subtle blows always make thing smoother.

[Konda]

This. I do Salvage with an Amano SAM, and there's no way in all holy hell any kind of MNK (Shenlong's or not, as if that makes a massive difference anyway) will ever come close to that kind of raw damage output. I have MNK levelled; I love playing MNK and think it's certainly a competitive melee, but unlike some of you I'm not deluding myself based on fanboyism and mathematics so absolutely fundamentally flawed you might as well post a picture of a unicorn with baguettes for legs and call that the evidence for your ridiculous assertions.

Wait, are you honestly comparing amano sam to mnk?

edit: owait i missread lol


agreed w/ Kaiten spam. shit gets messy with SAM roll.



one of the advantages of mnk which i've found is that it takes very little damage. Between shadows, counter, penance and chakara (500+ hp every 5min for 0 mp) it's a very easy job on the backline. all it really needs is haste from them and the odd cure.

as mentioned, it's only lacking a instant hate tool, but counterstance saved for after brainjack along with other JAs can go some way to counter this