lv99 bitch/speculation/etc thread

[Lovex]

What is WRONG with this thread...

Most derailed? Idk

[Lucavi]

The only reason so many of you think SAM is broken is because you judge the entire game based on how quickly you can kill birds in a merit party.

Not true. My drg can slaughter a sam on birds, so by your logic, Drg is the strongest ever.

No, Sams can do just about everything faster and more safely than any other DD in the game, barring a glitched Drk that has constant access to blood weapon. When you have a "I can do everything as good as or better than you!" job, naturally every n00b in the game is going to want to use it (albeit poorly), and every quasi-hardcore HNMLS is going to require that their DDs at least have it to 75.

Really, it starts at the top, and trickles down. Just like with most things, shit rolls downhill. N00bs and stargazers see a job performing well at HNM and all things end-game, see that the best (or more accurately, best-geared) players are using it and use it well, then twist that and decree that the job must be used for everything.

This is nothing new. This has been going on since before Arrowburn parties. For anyone to deny it is foolhardy, because years and years of this exclusive burn-shit should have taught everyone by now.

[Tsuko_Asura]

I don't really understand the "lol PLD" argument. Atonement changed everything. Are you people arguing that a job which can now deal fairly respectable (and completely consistent) damage, while staying at the hate cap, while healing the alliance, is somehow bad? I'm sorry, I guessed you missed the memo where a good Pld can effectively replace a healer in the alliance, whose spot can go to another DD.

Please don't try and tell me that being able to add another DD to the alliance isn't more effective than forcing a DD to lower his own output to tank as well.

There are obviously times where a Pld isn't necessary, I'm not an idiot. But on genuinely harder shit, I just don't get the argument. Just because you can do something doesn't make it better.

Unless you're telling me that the healer the paladin is "replacing" doesn't show up because of this(who needs Haste, anyway?), I don't see your point. Both of them are still going to be there, and one of them is going to be twiddling their thumbs. We've gone from superfluous damage mitigation to superfluous healing.

And I've seen this logical fallacy a handful of times in this thread: why do people keep saying that a DD is being forced to lower their output to tank? Yes, that person is having to lower their damage ouput, but that party slot's damage output just rose significantly.

Beyond that, I don't know what you don't understand. I've been tanking without the nifty abilities of a paladin for a long time on red mage, and as far as staying alive goes, I attribute that, more than anything, to Stoneskin and capped recasts, both of which DRK has(or some variation of it).

[ringthree]

The only reason so many of you think SAM is broken is because you judge the entire game based on how quickly you can kill birds in a merit party.

The reason so many people have bad assumptions about so many things in this game is because of this one single fact.

[ringthree]

Isn't one of the reasons SAM Is so well off compared to other DD is because they don't lose as much subbing /nin? Other DD take a bigger hit but sam still maintains Hasso, easy 6 hit, and a good damage output with Y/G/K regardless of sub.

I always thought SAM mostly trumped other DD when other DD had to pussy out to survive.

If you are subbing NIN for any reason other than cheap sneak and invisible then you are doing it wrong.

[pchan]

Are you seriously retarded or what?
No1 said haste is useless you idiot. I said DOT damage sux compared to 5/6-hit build Both setup rely on Haste, you really should stop posting.

You clearly said that in a meripo, mobs die so fast that building TP (and therefore dot) is not important and meditate (which you refer as "JA") is more important. Guess what ? It's the other way around. Meditate is less important in a meripo than anywhere else. 60 TP every 3 minutes is riduculous when it takes 15sec for one ws (with high buffs) or 20 sec (with only 2ble march).

[Tsuko_Asura]

If you are subbing NIN for any reason other than cheap sneak and invisible then you are doing it wrong.

Bandwagon logic ->

/NIN is a good decision in a handful of significant activities

[ringthree]

Bandwagon logic ->

/NIN is a good decision in a handful of significant activities

Yes, those activities that require sneak and invisible.

If you have good mages you never need /NIN.

And actually, I have found that the bandwagon is with using /NIN for just about every DD, but I believe that is largely do to the fact that most mages, ney, most players are not good enough to play their jobs correctly.

I am only discussing this in the context of SAM. If you are suggesting that MNK or other jobs are better off with /NIN, then I will not disagree.

RE: the best DD in Salvage, etc, discussion.

I have done Salvage on SAM, MNK and DRG (and a variety of other jobs). I regularly also go with HQ WARs. My conclusion on which is best? It doesn't matter. They all get the job done. We can finish every zone with any three DD, and there is no discernible difference in the outcome.

Good players have a much larger effect than job selection on the outcome of just about any event in the game. Some jobs are easier to play and gear, but in the end there is much gnashing of teeth about irrelevant differences.

Results matter, everything else is just internet bluster. And you can get good results with any of the DDs in their current configuration.

[Nevex]

If you have good mages you never need /NIN.

Tell that to dragons in Einherjar.

[seiji]

If you are subbing NIN for any reason other than cheap sneak and invisible then you are doing it wrong.

you should sub dnc then

[willriker]

Tell that to dragons in Einherjar.

exceptions to every rule

[ringthree]

Tell that to dragons in Einherjar.

Well, your dragons can tell that to AoE draining bones.

We can have the same old, same old debate on /NIN increasing survivability vs. /DD decreasing the amount of time you are fighting a mob, if you want, but I don't think it's going to make a difference.

Pointing to one mob in an event that randomly generates mobs is slightly ridiculous especially when other mobs in that same event contradict your point.

[Karbuncle]

Isn't Body Slam significantly more deadly than say.. Blood Saber and Black Cloud >.>?

So wouldn't the benefit of being able to block Body Slam outweigh the chance that your shadows might be erased Fighting skeletons =x?

[ringthree]

you should sub dnc then

ISWYDT.

[ringthree]

Isn't Body Slam significantly more deadly than say.. Blood Saber and Black Cloud >.>?

So wouldn't the benefit of being able to block Body Slam outweigh the chance that your shadows might be erased Fighting skeletons =x?

Are we really having this discussion?

HQ tier 3 bones can stay alive forever with those moves, and drain the MP of the mages. Just as much as Body Slam or any number of other moves.

Basing your subbing decision on one potential mob in tier 3 seems a little short sighted.

[Karbuncle]

Are we really having this discussion?

HQ tier 3 bones can stay alive forever with those moves, and drain the MP of the mages. Just as much as Body Slam or any number of other moves.

Basing your subbing decision on one potential mob in tier 3 seems a little short sighted.

Actually i'm not basing anything of anything, i'm just pointing out an absolute fact. Body Slam is more powerful and potentially damaging than Blood Saber or Black Cloud.

Infact im more on your side here, since you can Stun Body Slam making it less likely to hurt anyone, and Blood Saber/Malediction/Black Cloud are near instant.

[Nightmarelord]

Um hi! skillchains at least for sam come back the moment they obtain amano. kaiten x2 is just to deliciously destructive to most things to pass up. and lets not mention double light.

[Gergall]

Are we really having this discussion?

HQ tier 3 bones can stay alive forever with those moves, and drain the MP of the mages. Just as much as Body Slam or any number of other moves.

Basing your subbing decision on one potential mob in tier 3 seems a little short sighted.

I know what a tier 3 bones is, but what is an "HQ tier 3 bones" ?

[Karbuncle]

I know what a tier 3 bones is, but what is an "HQ tier 3 bones" ?

Vanquished Einherjar +1

they have a 5% Chance to spawn when you enter facing south east

[willriker]

Actually i'm not basing anything of anything, i'm just pointing out an absolute fact. Body Slam is more powerful and potentially damaging than Blood Saber or Black Cloud.

Infact im more on your side here, since you can Stun Body Slam making it less likely to hurt anyone, and Blood Saber/Malediction/Black Cloud are near instant.

i agree... you can reliably stun every move form those dragons. Flat Blade will even stun it. Your back line (or DRKs) just need to be paing special attention to be able to stun them as youll need to do so at the very start of the animation. I stun that crap all the time... on PLD... with Shield Bash... and Flat Blade...

You would need to come up with a better example than this enemy. If you break your mind on the topic long enough, im sure you will find something i guess.