lv99 bitch/speculation/etc thread

[lolwut]

I love that new abilities like Yonin/Innin and Solace/Misery are considered too integral to jobs to be shared, but Convert/Refresh are open season.

The part where they said "We're thinking of adding some options for Rdm to do with all the free time they'll have now in parties" made me laugh out loud, since I think they meant "We're thinking of some solo content for Rdm since we're going to crush the usefulness of having more than one in any alliance".

[Jado818]

Any word if they gonna raise the level cap on npc fellow's?

[SephYuyX]

No word.

[Draylo]

Would be expected.

[ronin sparthos]

I love that new abilities like Yonin/Innin and Solace/Misery are considered too integral to jobs to be shared, but Convert/Refresh are open season.

The part where they said "We're thinking of adding some options for Rdm to do with all the free time they'll have now in parties" made me laugh out loud, since I think they meant "We're thinking of some solo content for Rdm since we're going to crush the usefulness of having more than one in any alliance".

Convert and Refresh help to make mana go further which is going to be main problem for mages as the level cap rises and MP pools become increasingly bigger to deal with. By spreading those techs (im sure vert will be nerfed), you free up the RDM to do more duties such as enfeebling and healing along with crowd control.

Many people bitched that RDM watered down to crappy rotations so taking the main focus on RDM onwards to something else can free up what the RDM can do while making most other mages self-sufficient to an extent.

[orson]

SE has basically said that convert and refresh will most likely not be nerfed for subjobs. They said they'd rather just add new things to Rdm to them unique. Convert isn't that powerful overall in the grand scheme of things and I doubt Refresh II will stack with Refresh. If you look to the past, abilities from the core 6 jobs are not nerfed when subbed.

[Militant]

SE has basically said that convert and refresh will most likely not be nerfed for subjobs. They said they'd rather just add new things to Rdm to them unique. Convert isn't that powerful overall in the grand scheme of things and I doubt Refresh II will stack with Refresh. If you look to the past, abilities from the core 6 jobs are not nerfed when subbed.

Convert isin't that powerful? Pretty fuckin' sure most mages wouldn't mind a doubling of their MP pool effectively. Granted, there will be situations where certain abilities/spells will require the use of a specific subjob, but what's the point of having an RDM in the party anymore if you can have a BLM/RDM that can do everything an RDM can do support wise nearly? Haste, Refresh, Cures, Convert etc.

[Kensaki]

Convert isin't that powerful? Pretty fuckin' sure most mages wouldn't mind a doubling of their MP pool effectively. Granted, there will be situations where certain abilities/spells will require the use of a specific subjob, but what's the point of having an RDM in the party anymore if you can have a BLM/RDM that can do everything an RDM can do support wise nearly? Haste, Refresh, Cures, Convert etc.

Cause RDM can't get new ranks/spells on the way to level 99?

[Militant]

Sure they can, but we don't know exactly what/or how they're going to implement it. But based on vana fest footage, we can already deduce that Refresh is going to be able to be used when subbed.

edit: for the record, I have 0 problem with the level cap increase so long as all the jobs can retain what made them unique and desirable.

We intend to ensure that red mages maintain the prominent position they currently enjoy, while closely monitoring their balance with other magic-wielding jobs.
For example, the level cap increase will render both “Convert” and “Refresh” usable by support jobs. If this gives red mages more free time in their parties, we will find ways for them to fill that time productively. If this threatens to deprive the job of its uniqueness, however, we will make sure to cover for this in other areas.

Maybe its me being pessimistic but that doesn't sound too convincing too me especially from SE's mouth.

[Foldypaws]

I love that new abilities like Yonin/Innin and Solace/Misery are considered too integral to jobs to be shared, but Convert/Refresh are open season.

So... if Afflatus isn't usable subbed, this basically destroys WHMs usefulness as a sub. Well, nice to know that I won't have to take WHM from 42->49 at least..

[orson]

Sure they can, but we don't know exactly what/or how they're going to implement it. But based on vana fest footage, we can already deduce that Refresh is going to be able to be used when subbed.

edit: for the record, I have 0 problem with the level cap increase so long as all the jobs can retain what made them unique and desirable.



Maybe its me being pessimistic but that doesn't sound too convincing too me especially from SE's mouth.

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89579

Naturally, this will open up a slew of new possibilities from support jobs alone. A few of the examples they showed were Samurai using Haste Samba, White Mage using Convert and Monk using Aggressor. However, not every Ability is guaranteed to appear in its fully powered form when its host job is subbed. Some Abilitiies will need to be toned down, and there may be rare cases (such as Call Wyvern) where the Ability is unusable. It will take some adjusting, but the developers sounded excited to see how the players will improve and grow. People worried about losing their defining Abilities will be happy to hear that new, more powerful versions will be added to compensate. Specifically, Red Mages were mentioned, and promised that while Jobs could sub Refresh, an extra potent Refresh would become available at a higher level.

There's also another interview where they specifically said that they didn't want to nerf refresh and convert because they want people to spam away on magic. Also yes convert isn't that powerful it's handy but much more so for smaller man or solo operations. Even then it's hardly Rdm's defining characteristic and has very little to do with why the job is so powerful. Sure looking at it from a meripo only view Rdm could have more competition in that area but seriously meripo is such a small part of the game it's not even funny.

[Mojo]

Refreshga II on RDM/SCH yee-haw

[Militant]

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89579

What I got out of that was "We have a whole bunch of job tweaks pretty much decided for most of the jobs that need finalization, we realize RDM's current role is going to be doable by all jobs when subbing it, and quite frankly, be done better by some other jobs even when subbing it, so we'll probably add something like en-spell III's to give rdm's something to do with their new down time".

[orson]

What I got out of that was "We have a whole bunch of job tweaks pretty much decided for most of the jobs that need finalization, we realize RDM's current role is going to be doable by all jobs when subbing it, and quite frankly, be done better by some other jobs even when subbing it, so we'll probably add something like en-spell III's to give rdm's something to do with their new down time".

Again you're looking at Rdm simply as a straight support job using only refresh/haste/cures which is only a tiny portion of what the job can do. Also what part of having a extra potent refresh added is hard to believe? I get that haste has a cap but refresh does not and spells are just bound to get more and more expensive as level goes up. Even if it doesn't who cares? Rdm still will have haste/refresh/cures, my god if Rdm doesn't have monopoly on refresh other healer jobs might get merit style party invites, CURSES!!!!!

[Byrthnoth]

Apart from Refresh, Haste, and Convert, all RDM really has that's unique to it is really high enfeebling magic. High base enfeebling magic skill matters the most for the MND based enfeebles, as it lets you use more MND than you would be able to otherwise. Is it worth it to invite RDM to an xp party if that's all they're bringing to the table? I sure wouldn't.

The thing I'm hoping for is Refresh II, and what would be really awesome to compliment it is Tier IV nukes, Cure V, and Convert II (could essentially be a second Convert). Heck, you want to make us melee? Give us a status JA like Composure that just turns TP we'd get into MP. Bam, lolRDMmeree just got relevant, and it's hard to say that's overpowering.

[konoko]

Things that would make rdm keep its uniqueness imo, would be refresh II, Haste II (maybe 20%?) an enfeebling version of composure (double recast time but triple duration of slow/para/sleep/etc) a JA that converts tp into something more useful than just dmg, maybe a boost to the next MACC,MATB, and/or Duration of the next spell or converting tp into mp, possibly new unique debuffs/buffs some possibilities include Frog/Zombie/Confuse/Terror/Enervation, maybe En-AttackDown/En-EvasionDown/En-DefenceDown

not all of these would be nessissary, but any number of these would make RDM a viable option as a main job from 75-99, if not as desireable for merits (but lets face it, rdm wont be losing merit parties to whm's/smn's/sch's as long as they seem reliable)

[Militant]

Rdm still will have haste/refresh/cures, my god if Rdm doesn't have monopoly on refresh other healer jobs might get merit style party invites, CURSES!!!!!

Ok, before I just thought you were talking out your ass, and playing devil's advocate. Now I know you're just an idiot. Read what you wrote again. My Point is, EVERY JOB will have haste/refresh/cures/convert. So lose the uniqueness of 2-3 spells, and 1 potent ability, to gain possibly 1 useful spell as your suggesting. Great idea. What other fucking healer refresh jobs are there besides BRD and COR who are already highly desireable and basically a requirement for meriting anyway. All your point does, is make it so that any old DRG/RDM with a good MP build could do the RDM's job (in a merit/or basically level 81+ leveling up party), it didnt open up merit invites for COR or BRD, as we all know they already damn-well had their spot. Just stop trying at this point.

[konoko]

Ok, before I just thought you were talking out your ass, and playing devil's advocate. Now I know you're just an idiot. Read what you wrote again. My Point is, EVERY JOB will have haste/refresh/cures/convert. So lose the uniqueness of 2-3 spells, and 1 potent ability, to gain possibly 1 useful spell as your suggesting. Great idea. What other fucking healer refresh jobs are there besides BRD and COR who are already highly desireable and basically a requirement for meriting anyway. All your point does, is make it so that any old DRG/RDM with a good MP build could do the RDM's job (in a merit/or basically level 81+ leveling up party), it didnt open up merit invites for COR or BRD, as we all know they already damn-well had their spot. Just stop trying at this point.

stop crying allready >.>, if redmage got absolutely nothing from lvl 75-99, people would still invite the job to exp and merit, because the job WORKS, you could sub scholar and get AoE Refresh and Haste (sure a scholar could sub redmage too) you could even sub whm and get Solace/Misery

Will your job be less unique if you get nothing? yes
Will it be useless? no.

as long as their are competent redmages seeking invites they will get the invites, i already invite a whm's I know over rdm's i don't to merit/exp

and il sure as hell invite a rdm i know is good over a whm or sch or drg/rdm i don't from 75 to 99

you might lose your hallmark as the most desired jobs for healing, but you wont become the next lolpup

[Militant]

Jesus, I'm not fucking crying. I've got several 75's, if they nerf one, I'll play another one, it's not really that big of a deal. This is a SPECULATION thread, and I'm speculating based off what SE has stated, and done in the past. Yeah, it wont be useless, I established that. My point was, nearly any job will be able to fill that role you are describing assuming they sub RDM, and I'm not saying that it will def. happen, but if you are trying to argue that its not possible or viable just stop.

[orson]

Apart from Refresh, Haste, and Convert, all RDM really has that's unique to it is really high enfeebling magic. High base enfeebling magic skill matters the most for the MND based enfeebles, as it lets you use more MND than you would be able to otherwise. Is it worth it to invite RDM to an xp party if that's all they're bringing to the table? I sure wouldn't.

The thing I'm hoping for is Refresh II, and what would be really awesome to compliment it is Tier IV nukes, Cure V, and Convert II (could essentially be a second Convert). Heck, you want to make us melee? Give us a status JA like Composure that just turns TP we'd get into MP. Bam, lolRDMmeree just got relevant, and it's hard to say that's overpowering.

So as it stands now Rdm is the only job to get regular experience party invites. If other jobs get convert and refresh this just expands the pool of jobs + players that will get parties making it easier to get parties together. This isn't a bad thing and it isn't doom and gloom for Rdms because they aren't losing anything they're going to be gaining options. If you wouldn't invite a Rdm because other jobs are getting refresh and convert then it's your loss. Rdms will still get invited and are not going to suddenly become like Smn or Blm as party rejects.

Awarding other mages these "signature" Rdm abilities and magic is not going to stop Rdms from what they could do prior. You're just worrying that you might be brought to a closer level to other mages. Again god damn SE if they try to make things easier to set up by making events slightly less reliant on one job.

Also apart from enfeebling they also have high fast cast and enhancing. Once they get /Sch up and running they'll be even more effective with powerful buffs. Not only that being able to tank and solo better than any other mage job is a pretty huge thing.

Also Militant I'm not being an idiot I'm being realistic. As Konoko says Rdm will always have a place in the game even if they basically received nothing from 76-99.