lv99 bitch/speculation/etc thread

[Militant]

So as it stands now Rdm is the only job to get regular experience party invites. If other jobs get convert and refresh this just expands the pool of jobs + players that will get parties making it easier to get parties together. This isn't a bad thing and it isn't doom and gloom for Rdms because they aren't losing anything they're going to be gaining options. If you wouldn't invite a Rdm because other jobs are getting refresh and convert then it's your loss. Rdms will still get invited and are not going to suddenly become like Smn or Blm as party rejects.

Also apart from enfeebling they also have high fast cast and enhancing. Once they get /Sch up and running they'll be even more effective with powerful buffs. Not only that being able to tank and solo better than any other mage job is a pretty huge. Awarding other mages these "signature" Rdm abilities and magic is not going to stop Rdms from what they could do prior. You're just worrying that you might be brought to a closer level to other mages. Again god damn SE if they try to make things easier to set up by making events slightly less reliant on one job.

Cause high enhancing skill does tons for haste and refresh.

[orson]

Cause high enhancing skill does tons for haste and refresh.

Well at least someone is fulfilling the bitching quota of the lv99 bitch/speculation/etc thread. I was a bit worried there for a second.

[konoko]

You are predicting doom and gloom in your speculation (which is really just bitching) and acting like its the end of the road for redmage.

"The gravy train is over, pack up the ol'tabard and jump to the nearest bandwagon!~"

"And BTW i don't care what happens i have other jobs than redmage guyz so its speculationszes not bitching~"

http://perpetualnationalchampionship...in-300x242.gif

[Militant]

Well at least someone is fulfilling the bitching quota of the lv99 bitch/speculation/etc thread. I was a bit worried there for a second.

Falling back on insults when having a discussion is someone's way of saying "you won, and I look like an idiot, so I'm going to try and insult real quick to save face."

If you had the reading comprehension of at least a 6th grader, you can see I wasn't bitching (and even if I was, this IS the thread for it, so what?) and rather bringing up some very valid concerns/questions based upon the latest information we have from SE about the upcoming job updates.

[lolwut]

[quote]Specifically, Red Mages were mentioned, and promised that while Jobs could sub Refresh, an extra potent Refresh would become available at a higher level.[\quote]

From watching the subtitled video, all they said was that they'll look into it after the fact. If they did "Specifically" say a higher tier refresh would be added, can you give me the time where mentioned in the video? It's relevant to my interests. Until I do see them actually saying it though, I'll just mark it up to journalistic excitability.

I have Cor, Sam, and War at 75, getting a merit party is the least of my worries, since I haven't had to merit on Rdm since KRT was in style. I'm talking about actual balance, and more importantly about "defining traits". Applying that as a criteria to new abilities, but not what is long established as the defining element of Rdms is ridiculous. What else would you consider a 'defining' part of a Rdm? Crowd control with sleep? Gravity? Healing? Nuking?

What would make Rdm a necessary party slot after this besides dropping a dia 3 for zergs (which your Cor can do with dia II and light shot now, while also giving rolls and refresh to the party) and or landing slow (which you can rotate with two ele seal blm anyway)? Dnc can do some pretty cool things, but you don't typically take them to events where that party slot can be better used either.

Enhancing skill will be a total non issue after the cap raises, since the spells that use them like SS or Phalanx cap out anyway.

I never said that Rdm would be useless, however I don't see the point in having anyone who can come another job subbed /rdm bother coming Rdm main post cap. That would pretty much be the definition of being deprived of your uniqueness in party situations.

Again, this is from the perspective of someone who doesn't give a shit about experience party situations. Most of the people arguing to the contrary seem to be focused on exp though, which is fine, but entirely unrelated to my original point.

[Militant]

[QUOTE=lolwut;3641083]

Specifically, Red Mages were mentioned, and promised that while Jobs could sub Refresh, an extra potent Refresh would become available at a higher level.[\quote]

From watching the subtitled video, all they said was that they'll look into it after the fact. If they did "Specifically" say a higher tier refresh would be added, can you give me the time where mentioned in the video? It's relevant to my interests. Until I do see them actually saying it though, I'll just mark it up to journalistic excitability.

I have Cor, Sam, and War at 75, getting a merit party is the least of my worries, since I haven't had to merit on Rdm since KRT was in style. I'm talking about actual balance, and more importantly about "defining traits". Applying that as a criteria to new abilities, but not what is long established as the defining element of Rdms is ridiculous. What else would you consider a 'defining' part of a Rdm? Crowd control with sleep? Gravity? Healing? Nuking?

What would make Rdm a necessary party slot after this besides dropping a dia 3 for zergs (which your Cor can do with dia II and light shot now, while also giving rolls and refresh to the party) and or landing slow (which you can rotate with two ele seal blm anyway)? Dnc can do some pretty cool things, but you don't typically take them to events where that party slot can be better used either.

Enhancing skill will be a total non issue after the cap raises, since the spells that use them like SS or Phalanx cap out anyway.

I never said that Rdm would be useless, however I don't see the point in having anyone who can come another job subbed /rdm bother coming Rdm main post cap. That would pretty much be the definition of being deprived of your uniqueness in party situations.

Again, this is from the perspective of someone who doesn't give a shit about experience party situations. Most of the people arguing to the contrary seem to be focused on exp though, which is fine, but entirely unrelated to my original point.

Thank god for some fucking sanity on these boards. This is exactly what I was trying to convey but everyone wants to look cool and use meme's, so it's really pointless trying to have a discussion sometimes.

inb4 another dumb reply from orson/konoko trying to look cool/insult/fail at reading.

[fantasticdan]

-- With the increase in level cap comes an increase in support job level cap. Powerful magics and abilities like Refresh and Convert will become usable without having to be one's specialties. Are you planning to adjust their effect when used as a support job?

Matsui: Personally, I like the idea of getting Refresh from a support job. I'd like to see Red Mage gain an even stronger Refresh, making battles even more flashy as he tells everyone to "Go for it! Spam your magic!".

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=651

[Militant]

That was an off-hand comment and not part of any official job update note release. If it proves to be true, then I'll gladly eat my words, but fuck. These days you can't even bitch or speculate in a bitch and speculation thread without someone getting their panties in a bunch. What his ideas/visions are, I'm sure are used, but it doesn't mean everything he says is going to be directly (and more importantly, properly implemented in the game)

[orson]

Falling back on insults when having a discussion is someone's way of saying "you won, and I look like an idiot, so I'm going to try and insult real quick to save face."

If you had the reading comprehension of at least a 6th grader, you can see I wasn't bitching (and even if I was, this IS the thread for it, so what?) and rather bringing up some very valid concerns/questions based upon the latest information we have from SE about the upcoming job updates.

Oh fuck that you stupid hypocritical twat you started with the insults. Yes initially you weren't bitching but that was like 3 posts back now you've just got a full blown case of sandy vanginitis. I'm done arguing with your stupid ass you're right Rdm is screwed they'll never have anything nice ever again.

P.S. You're the one getting your panties in a bunch since you've basically been shown multiple times SE is planning on keeping Rdm unique and you're still worrying like a grandma.

[Militant]

I started with a very light insult, after you made like your 2nd or 3rd consecutive retarded post. The difference is, I didn't just insult and walk away, I continued to point out reasons why your thinking was incorrect in the matter. Pretty funny that you're saying I have a sandy vag, when you're the one throwing a temper tantrum and leaving the thread once things started not going your way.

inb4 another dumb reply from orson/konoko trying to look cool/insult/fail at reading.

Called it.

[konoko]

Slow II, Para II for HNM? Rdm tanking? There will be reasons to use rdm, even without any new toys, and you most definitely are going to be getting new spells of some kind, 24 more levels of any job without JA's/Spells would be pointless.

Ok, before I just thought you were talking out your ass, and playing devil's advocate. Now I know you're just an idiot. Read what you wrote again. My Point is, EVERY JOB will have haste/refresh/cures/convert. So lose the uniqueness of 2-3 spells, and 1 potent ability, to gain possibly 1 useful spell as your suggesting. Great idea. What other fucking healer refresh jobs are there besides BRD and COR who are already highly desireable and basically a requirement for meriting anyway. All your point does, is make it so that any old DRG/RDM with a good MP build could do the RDM's job (in a merit/or basically level 81+ leveling up party), it didnt open up merit invites for COR or BRD, as we all know they already damn-well had their spot. Just stop trying at this point.

Also when you say/post something childish like this, expect a childish response.

P.S. An insult is an insult, no matter how insignificant you imagine it is.

[jimbobsonofgod]

Rdms will still have chainspell stun
Which is gonna be as functional as Souleater zergs.
Rdm the new dark knight.

Rdm will still be the preferred healer for merit style parties after the uncap unless on top of it all whm gets a refresh head piece.

[Militant]

Slow II, Para II for HNM? Rdm tanking? There will be reasons to use rdm, even without any new toys, and you most definitely are going to be getting new spells of some kind, 24 more levels of any job without JA's/Spells would be pointless.



Also when you say/post something childish like this, expect a childish response.

P.S. An insult is an insult, no matter how insignificant you imagine it is.

I never once stated, I thought SE would give us 24 more levels and no new spells. I specifically stated what scares me is the history that SE has + recent job adjustments. SE thought Enspell II's were going to give RDM a whole new niche or different roll to play sometimes. What did they do? They implemented a completely useless set of spells, that, with the way the game is currently played are exactly that, useless. It's all about execution and implementation, SE's had some great ideas in the past, but they have also failed miserably and implementing some of them on numerous occasions. Are you really trying to dispute that?

[konoko]

I would dispute what your so called failures are, the only thing SE truly fails at is Customer Service.

Sure not everything they have done fits everyone's expectations/wants etc, also they have completely bombed in some ways, but most of the major failings have involved attempting to cede to their customers, while not bending over backwards for them.

Ballista sucks imo, but allot of ppl still enjoy it for some reason (and its clear SE never wanted PVP in this game)

Tons of people do Chocobo raising/racing/breeding for w/e reason.

Theres MMM which my ls refuses to do, but i see it packed with JP's daily

Pankration just sucks...

As far as jobs are concerned, yes they have some major problems (BST and SMN come to mind)

But if i had to give SE a grade on how well they have done as a whole (especially when it comes to balancing this game and not turning it into WoW) they would get a passing grade from me.

But this ^ is entirely opinion, as is your statement regarding prior updates. I think they have learned allot and for the most part have made good choices, of course with the amount of bitching we get on this website and others every single update (almost always from the same fuckers who threaten to quit and say the game is dieing and have said these same things since 2005) you would think that SE is the worst game maker in the history of MMO's, but then you wouldn't have payed attention to games like Tabula Rasa (that launched and died in months, not years)

Edit: Regarding Enspell II's the playerbase whined for those for years, and when SE added them they attempted to make them not to powerfull by the redmages abusing Enspells with Kraken clubs etc. Not really entirely their fault that the playerbase will take any possible exploitation they get wind of and ruin things for the rest of us.

[ringthree]

I never once stated, I thought SE would give us 24 more levels and no new spells. I specifically stated what scares me is the history that SE has + recent job adjustments. SE thought Enspell II's were going to give RDM a whole new niche or different roll to play sometimes. What did they do? They implemented a completely useless set of spells, that, with the way the game is currently played are exactly that, useless. It's all about execution and implementation, SE's had some great ideas in the past, but they have also failed miserably and implementing some of them on numerous occasions. Are you really trying to dispute that?

History of recent job adjustments? Besides BST (the whipping boy job of the dev team LOL) there have been no bad job adjustments in years. Some haven't been amazing, but almost all of them have been at least beneficial.

You might remember that in the update with Enspell II's, RDM also got Composure. And WHM got Afflatus. While I do agree with your assessment that Enspells have limited utility, you are completely incorrect in your assessment of what SE thought would come about from those spells. Did you really think that SE was giving RDM new Enspells to make them new amazing melee DDs? They gave them a new toy that some people will like but most people will just ignore. Can you even name some of those job adjustments that "failed miserably"?

I could list the huge number of very positive job changes (poor BST) that SE has done in the last couple of years, but I don't think you care. You seem like one of those butthurt melee RDM that turned into a primadonna RDM. Just because SE doesn't give you what you want doesn't mean they are doing something wrong.

So yeah, I will dispute that.

[Militant]

I would dispute what your so called failures are, the only thing SE truly fails at is Customer Service.

Sure not everything they have done fits everyone's expectations/wants etc, also they have completely bombed in some ways, but most of the major failings have involved attempting to cede to their customers, while not bending over backwards for them.

Ballista sucks imo, but allot of ppl still enjoy it for some reason (and its clear SE never wanted PVP in this game)

Tons of people do Chocobo raising/racing/breeding for w/e reason.

Theres MMM which my ls refuses to do, but i see it packed with JP's daily

Pankration just sucks...

As far as jobs are concerned, yes they have some major problems (BST and SMN come to mind)

But if i had to give SE a grade on how well they have done as a whole (especially when it comes to balancing this game and not turning it into WoW) they would get a passing grade from me.

But this ^ is entirely opinion, as is your statement regarding prior updates. I think they have learned allot and for the most part have made good choices, of course with the amount of bitching we get on this website and others every single update (almost always from the same fuckers who threaten to quit and say the game is dieing and have said these same things since 2005) you would think that SE is the worst game maker in the history of MMO's, but then you wouldn't have payed attention to games like Tabula Rasa (that launched and died in months, not years)

Edit: Regarding Enspell II's the playerbase whined for those for years, and when SE added them they attempted to make them not to powerfull by the redmages abusing Enspells with Kraken clubs etc. Not really entirely their fault that the playerbase will take any possible exploitation they get wind of and ruin things for the rest of us.

As far as Enspell II's go, there's also a few very easy ways in which it could be fixed, but this is not the topic or time for it, nor do I even care enough about them, was just citing the first example that came to mind. I will agree with some of what you said, as I do feel SE has gotten better (restored blackbelts/gjallarhorn really opened my eyes), and they do seem to be slightly more forth-coming with information, and wanting to please the players these days than in days past.

I'm honestly not worried about any other job in terms of balance. The reason is because, each job already has fairly specific niche, or set balance in the game. SAM, WAR, DRK, RNG, PLD, BRD, SCH, even SMN all have their uses and set roles in certain fights and situations. Every job pretty much has at least a few things they are good at (I'm sure someone could find something for PUP even). The problem with RDM (and also what has made is powerful) is that... they don't really do amazing at all (ok, i get it, A+ enfeebling), but they can do a little bit of everything. And the way I see it, is they're giving that "little bit of everything" to anyone who want's to use that job as a support job. Why play a job if you can get nearly as much use out of it as a support job? Ok I get it, they're going to add a few abilities that will help RDM out post 75, and this should help. But it still seems like they're giving a piece of job to every job willing to sub it. You don't get 4 shadows from Ni when you sub NIN, I don't see why it would be unreasonable to do the same kind of limitations on the spells that make RDM what RDM is, but SE has already explicitly stated they intend on letting other jobs have full access when it is used as a sub, and that really was the reason for any concern at all.

@Ring. I never said SE thought Enspells would make RDM a great DD. I said SE thought it would give RDM some sort of new use or some new thing they could do that would be beneficial to the party in some way. They failed to do that completely, or do you still disagree with that statement? That's all I said in regards to that. Also I never said they failed at job adjustments specifically (which we all know they have at one point or another, but I'm not being super critical, that is bound to happen in a game as complex as this). I said SE has failed at implementing things, period (Konoko got that point of my post). Maybe if you could read what I actually said, instead of twisting words, or just failing to comprehend what they mean, I wouldn't come off that way to you.

I also said earlier that I was FOR the level cap raise, so long as the game maintains balance. You're acting as if its completely unreasonable for me to think SE might bork something this time around. If I'm for something, and I'm just speculating on WHAT COULD HAPPEN, it is not really bitching. Let them implement the changes first, and then if I'm complaining about them, call it bitching all you want.

[konoko]

Regarding bst i think they could fix it pretty easily, Make all jugpets at least 60 mins, make Charm boost your pet in some way (maybe transfer a buff or buffs?) and lower sic recast to a reasonable amount(10-30 second range), and voila bst has utility in situations that are not solo

[konoko]

As far as Enspell II's go, there's also a few very easy ways in which it could be fixed, but this is not the topic or time for it, nor do I even care enough about them, was just citing the first example that came to mind. I will agree with some of what you said, as I do feel SE has gotten better (restored blackbelts/gjallarhorn really opened my eyes), and they do seem to be slightly more forth-coming with information, and wanting to please the players these days than in days past.

I'm honestly not worried about any other job in terms of balance. The reason is because, each job already has fairly specific niche, or set balance in the game. SAM, WAR, DRK, RNG, PLD, BRD, SCH, even SMN all have their uses and set roles in certain fights and situations. Every job pretty much has at least a few things they are good at (I'm sure someone could find something for PUP even). The problem with RDM (and also what has made is powerful) is that... they don't really do amazing at all (ok, i get it, A+ enfeebling), but they can do a little bit of everything. And the way I see it, is they're giving that "little bit of everything" to anyone who want's to use that job as a support job. Why play a job if you can get nearly as much use out of it as a support job? Ok I get it, they're going to add a few abilities that will help RDM out post 75, and this should help. But it still seems like they're giving a piece of job to every job willing to sub it. You don't get 4 shadows from Ni when you sub NIN, I don't see why it would be unreasonable to do the same kind of limitations on the spells that make RDM what RDM is, but SE has already explicitly stated they intend on letting other jobs have full access when it is used as a sub, and that really was the reason for any concern at all.

@Ring. I never said SE thought Enspells would make RDM a great DD. I said SE thought it would give RDM some sort of new use or some new thing they could do that would be beneficial to the party in some way. The failed to do that completely. That's all I said in regards to that.

I'm no grammar Nazi, but you really need to work on your punctuation/grammar lol

Rdm has A+ Enfeebling because that's what their Niche is supposed to be, they will get new enfeebles, and as long as those enfeebles have some use in endgame rdm will remain the undisputed enfeeble king.

No one asks a blm or whm to slow the HNM, they ask the RDM and the BRD to stack elegy and Slow II, the RDM to Paralyze II, the RDM to Dia III (okay cor can do this, but most don't) the RDM to sleep II the mobs that the Whm's repose, the Cor's Light shot, the Bards Lullaby, They Bind, they Gravity, they Dispel, they Enfeeble because that's what they were built to do, healing was supposed to be secondary.

[lolwut]

Slow II, Para II for HNM? Rdm tanking? There will be reasons to use rdm, even without any new toys, and you most definitely are going to be getting new spells of some kind, 24 more levels of any job without JA's/Spells would be pointless.

24 levels without anything new would be pointless. 24 levels without anything useful would be right up SE's alley. Consider it this way, they've killed the need for Drk and Whm subjobs outright, and Ninja will gain absolutely zero improvement while gaining 12 levels as a sub.

Short of a notably increased potency refresh 2 that stacks with refresh (ie not beaten by a refresh + ballad or evokers), a higher tier haste, or a 2+ tic regain spell, I'm not sure what they can put in to overcome what's been given away.

I addressed Slow in my previous post, Paralyze falls into the same spot unless you're fighting something you don't stun/nuke.

As far as Rdm tanking goes, it'll depend on the new mobs. I regularly co-tank all events that need a tank on Rdm with the ls leader's Pld. So far all new nms that have been released have either aoes that strip shadows, or ignore them completely. If SE continues this trend for the buffed up monsters in the new content, Rdm tanking is going to take a serious hit. Stoneskin and Phalanx's hardcaps will be eaten alive by endgame mobs, and shadows stripped regularly. With Yonin being off limits, Rdm tanks will bleed enmity at a far faster rate than they currently do.

This is even more likely if Nin is given Uts:San, as the designers will make shadow stripping standard to prevent it from being overpowered. IMO, if San is unlocked without some changes to the current enhancing formulas/caps, Pld/Rdm and Nin/Drk will outclass Rdm entirely for HNM at 99 in lowman content.

On the plus side, my Cor will be badass with haste samba in merits and refresh/haste on events.

[Militant]

I'm no grammar Nazi, but you really need to work on your punctuation/grammar lol

Rdm has A+ Enfeebling because that's what their Niche is supposed to be, they will get new enfeebles, and as long as those enfeebles have some use in endgame rdm will remain the undisputed enfeeble king.

No one asks a blm or whm to slow the HNM, they ask the RDM and the BRD to stack elegy and Slow II, the RDM to Paralyze II, the RDM to Dia III (okay cor can do this, but most don't) the RDM to sleep II the mobs that the Whm's repose, the Cor's Light shot, the Bards Lullaby, They Bind, they Gravity, they Dispel, they Enfeeble because that's what they were built to do, healing was supposed to be secondary.

Ah the old grammar nazi tactic. Seriously, if you don't have a constructive counter argument, then just stop fucking posting. And if you're going to call someone out on it, AT LEAST HAVE PROPER GRAMMAR YOURSELF. Seriously, go away.