March Version Update Job Adjustments

[Colenzo]

I know Allah are fools - I used to post there long, long ago, during the initial wave of drg hatred. I also know that SE doesn't implement everything people ask for, or else Jubaku: Ni would have been here years ago. Its even in the files; they've just been sitting on it for eons.

SE implements what they want to implement. The player-base can give them all the ideas they want: they aren't some company that communicates with their players on why or why not - they simply roll along and put out what content they want.

If they are looking at what we suggest (and they most certainly are), they aren't following all of it, and mostly with good reason - some ideas are entirely stupid. But others have merit, and instead of communicating with players on the haves and have nots, they simply choose to follow their own path. How romanticist of them.

I know bst is broken - I've known since 04 when I tried to play it, and threw my hands up in frustration, never to touch it again. I was there for all of the scorn and the lies and the slander against bst, before the XP penalty removal and everything else.

Bst probably won't ever be fixed. That's just the way SE rolls. Its a roll of the dice as to if your job gets fixed. I can tell you this, though: if Bst was some job that followed Japanese mythology, you'd see it as some epic demon-slaying force like Sam is. SE never fails in buffing the shit out of their "home nation" jobs.

Ok so if this were an american made game what job would you buff the shit out of ?

[Lucavi]

[/B]

Ok so if this were an american made game what job would you buff the shit out of ?

Well, if I wanted to make some money, and charged for monthly payments, I'd use some of that cash to balance the game as best as possible, instead of throwing my hands up at some jobs (bst), while buffing others (sam) to all hell, especially when the latter doesn't need any help.

Pretty simple shit, really.

[Ksandra]

colenzo put your sig back the way it was @@;

[edit] ontopicwise, bst buffs did sound rather lame, but hopefully they add things we don't know. I can't wait to see pup out DD everyone though lol

[SephYuyX]

if Bst was some job that followed Japanese mythology, you'd see it as some epic demon-slaying force like Sam is. SE never fails in buffing the shit out of their "home nation" jobs.

Dumbest statement ever.

[Lucavi]

Dumbest statement ever.

Your opinion, and you're entitled to it, but I respectfully disagree.

[ronin sparthos]

Your opinion, and you're entitled to it, but I respectfully disagree.

I wasn't aware the Japanese mythology included:

-Dragoon
-Scholar
-Puppetmasters
-Warrior
-White Mage
-Corsair
-Dark Knight

Yes, BST got a raw deal but cmon...

[Thunder]

Your opinion, and you're entitled to it, but I respectfully disagree.

SE is not buffing sams because samurais were in Japan over 200 years ago.

WAR is, more or less, on the same level as SAM and it has been before the 2h buff where: SAM sucked. But where is warrior in Japanese mythology?

[Lucavi]

Sams have been stronger than all of those jobs (Save juggy/maneater Wars back in the day) at one point, and sams were NEVER at any point in the game, weak.

All of those other jobs (again, outside of War, and excluding Sch because it post-dated the 2-handed adjustment) had trouble in either party play or end-game play, not to mention overall reputation. We still rag on Drgs and Drks, Pups had a hell of a time when ToAU launched, and nobody wanted a Cor in parties for awhile there, until people figured shit out. Whms were also sidestepped in party play for rdms.

You can try all you want to refute my statement, and that's fine, but show me a time where Sam was ever "trash" or "undesired". They weren't always the cream of the crop, but they were always solid, and a party or HNM shell was always better off having one, in both practicality and mentality.

Thunder: 2-handed wars sucked before the 2-handed adjustment. Warriors were lucky that dual wield mechanics were broken, and were lucky that they received a slew of broken-ass axes throughout the latter parts of the game, as well as through rampage, a weapon skill that recieved generous mods that worked oh-so-well with broken utusemi and one-handed damage mechanics.

Warriors got lucky through spaghetti code, poor gear planning, and most of all, hype. Show me a 2-hander war that was rolling with rngs and nins in sky burns back in the day, and you'll refute my point. Show me a war in 04-06 that wasn't rocking dual axes. Show me a war back then that didn't regret getting Bravura and realizing that it was shit compared to Juggy/Maneater.

[Ksandra]

Sams have been stronger than all of those jobs (Save juggy/maneater Wars back in the day) at one point, and sams were NEVER at any point in the game, weak.

All of those other jobs (again, outside of War, and excluding Sch because it post-dated the 2-handed adjustment) had trouble in either party play or end-game play, not to mention overall reputation. We still rag on Drgs and Drks, Pups had a hell of a time when ToAU launched, and nobody wanted a Cor in parties for awhile there, until people figured shit out. Whms were also sidestepped in party play for rdms.

You can try all you want to refute my statement, and that's fine, but show me a time where Sam was ever "trash" or "undesired". They weren't always the cream of the crop, but they were always solid, and a party or HNM shell was always better off having one, in both practicality and mentality.

Bard has always been the most solid class in the game, always needed, always will, not from japanese mythology.

[Thunder]

Wait so, the time before 2handed update was a mistake or something? Because they wanted samurai to be the best but somehow couldn't make it happen until now you say?

Stop fooling yourself, they are trying to balance things right now and before the 2handed update they did nothing but help mnk, war, and nin. Hell, before that rng had its spotlight and they reigned over every job MUCH harder than you think sam does now. It isn't even "the best" DD atm.

[bsphil]

He got these on his first try allegedly
http://i49.tinypic.com/b5oewz.png

Nice, although the lack of DMG:+ holds it back from completely outclassing hades/waghs. Essentially DMG:+2 vs Acc+2 Attack+10 and the other extras. I'd take those oberon's for sure, but I'd keep working towards one with h2h skill and DMG+.

[Lucavi]

Bard is designed to buff others, and in a game that has such strange scaling and caps for stats, a job that can raise damage by a significant percentage is GOING to be a solid class.

There aren't many MMOs where a bard-based job, or any job that focuses on inflating the e-peens of others jobs, isn't going to be powerful and popular at the same time. You used to play WoW -- you know all about Shamans and how everyone demanded bloodlust all the time. Same difference.

Isn't that why everyone loved Rdm? Kept the mana flowing so people could keep hitting chain 100+ and posting screenshots and bragging through LS chat? I was there, Ksandra - you remember. I know the reality just as well as you.

Really, the Sam comment was made in jest, but my points still stand. Many eastern jobs have had a much easier time in this game than others. Whether it was an intentional bias or not, it doesn't matter. It is what it is.

[Ksandra]

Really, the Sam comment was made in jest, but my points still stand. Many eastern jobs have had a much easier time in this game than others. Whether it was an intentional bias or not, it doesn't matter. It is what it is.

Well to claim it was because of their "nation's" jobs was rather silly. Equally, you can't say that for all eastern jobs, or you must have forgotten what it was like before ninja's tried to start tanking, and even when they did try to start tanking...It really isn't a bias.

[Gustaf the Voidbringer]

Man, Japan totally had all those jobs, except for DRK. Look at that Raiden guy, he was totally a RNG/BRD. Susanoo? Gimp WAR that used swords.

[Neosutra]

4% more haste, 2% with ninurta sash
stringing pummel is MUCH better than asuran fists ( with 100 str 70 vit stringing pummel is about 5.75*(56+ 0.35*0.83*(100+70)) DMG so ~606 while asuran fist is 8.0*(56+0.10*0.83*(120+70))=574 . Considering crit can proc on SP, even with only 10% chance, 1.10*606/574=1.16 so stringing pummel is 16% more damage at least)


The puppet's damage is enough to counter ~23% delay difference (after 2x march) and kick attacks.

Not arguing here, as it's been a while.. but:

Where are you getting 2% haste difference only?

My mnk is at 25% haste with full usu and BB..

Pup gets 13% haste from full usu and 6% from ninurtas/velocious.

Has my time away made me forget some 4% haste item somewhere for pup?

And still, counterstance, kick attacks, and martial arts > dead puppet (and I say dead because I really find it hard to find an event that BOTH the master and puppet can stay alive and damage at the same time), but that may be my ignorance of good pups.

[Sin Harvest]

Not arguing here, as it's been a while.. but:

Where are you getting 2% haste difference only?

My mnk is at 25% haste with full usu and BB..

Pup gets 13% haste from full usu and 6% from ninurtas/velocious.

Has my time away made me forget some 4% haste item somewhere for pup?

And still, counterstance, kick attacks, and martial arts > dead puppet (and I say dead because I really find it hard to find an event that BOTH the master and puppet can stay alive and damage at the same time), but that may be my ignorance of good pups.

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/3756/goliardsaio.png

[Deader2818]

Turban > 5%
Goliard body > 4%
PUP relic Hands > 3%
Usu Legs > 3%
Usu feet > 2%
V belt > 6%

I think.

[Neosutra]

Turban > 5%
Goliard body > 4%
PUP relic Hands > 3%
Usu Legs > 3%
Usu feet > 2%
V belt > 6%

I think.

Ah ya, but at the loss of 33 acc, 29 evasion, 2 counter, 11 strength, 8 dex, store tp from not using full Usu...Add to that Focus, Counterstance, HF, Penance, and Kick Attacks.

This pup update still leaves mnk on top of the H2H class set (as an all around fighter with reasonable damage output and good survival skills), it just gives pup a suck less factor that will hopefully make people start utilizing the job for several of the awesome (though situational) uses it has.

[Deader2818]

Either way, going from C to A is a pretty big leap, I would think just upping to B would be good enough.

Hell, All CORs should bitch and moan to raise our marksmenship to A to be with Rangers.

[Eanae]

No pld or nin announcements.