March Version Update Job Adjustments

[Fridell]

High damage shuriken WSs, at least one god damned inherent damaging JA, and a more reliable WS than our lvl 60 blade Jin would fix Nin.

As for Mnk.. fix footwork for HNMs, and stop giving us JAs that penalize our damage..

This.

[mdkuser]

If they are gonna add Martial arts traits, MNK will be swinging quite often. Perhaps they tested this with full haste gear and 2 more martial arts levels and found that a MNK99 gets TP quite fast, But even with subtle blow, mobs are fed so much TP that it becomes a danger to everyone. Against Chariots and other TP sensitive mobs, MNKs were better suited for long fights. If they chose to give MNK even greater DPS via Martial Arts traits, and I suspect they will have 2 more from 76-99, acc and subtle blow are gonna be pretty nice.

Do you really want to see a MNK, with almost full time Hundred Fists, pound the side of a Goblin's head so he throws bombs every 6 seconds? This falls in line with what MNK has been for the last 4 years, a glamorless DPS machine. With everyone leveling up 76-99, you'll welcome MNKs to xppts because of solid DPS, and disproportionately low TP feed. Let the SAM get the big WS numbers, who cares. MNK is a workhorse, and usually the second highest threat after the Tank.

I surely hope they give NINs more dualwield traits and monks more martial arts trait, there would be no real point levelling to 99 w/o those imo.

Despite the common belief, monk is the job that feed the least TP to the mobs ( thanks to subtle blow trait/gears and penance), there is a huge difference in number of TP moves used when tanking a chariot with 2monks ( full time penance), vs other dds. For example THF, who attacks about as fast, will trigger like 5x more tp moves. Also, asuran fist is better than a gekko whenever both WS are attack and accuracy caped ( ie anything that's not an hnm).

[Sechs]

I thought Stringing Pummel was better than Asuran Fists...

Haven't seen real tests (hard to test it anyway... 225 skill vs 276, not to count the difference in available gear, counts a lot) but I'd dare to say that, yeah, if Monks could use Stringing Pummel, I think it would be better than Asuran Fists.

Don't drool yet though, SE can still gimp Stringing Pummel modifiers/stats to avoid it being too leet with the new 269ish H2H skill of PUPs.

The update in itself is leet, PUP definitely needed more Acc, with skill we're getting also more base damage and attack, so it's just creamy.
This will make PUP with sharpshot quite a nice option for Birds parties, but I don't think this alone will grant PUPs a spot in end-game, excluding those situations where they already can sometimes get a spot (With BLM doll).

I'm more leaning toward the announced automaton tweaks. Having something like pets have in WoW (they take waaay less damage from AoE spells/abilities that do not directly target them) would be nice, but I guess we can't hope for SE to go that far.
While A skill is, like I said, creamy I think there are still issues to be solved

1. Mage AI (especially Soulsoother one). The way it prioritizes spells in some situations just makes no sense, I can't see why they haven't fixed it or even acknowledged of this issue (sometimes they said "we'll fix it" some other times they say "it's working perfectly, as intended")
2. Mage cooldowns. Splitting them in 2 (similarly to how they did for Blood pacts long time ago) could fix this limit. Like having buffs/debuffs/-Na spells on one timer and healing ones on another (for soulsoother), or debuffs/drain/aspir/lolabsint on one timer, and nukes on the other for SpiritReaver.
3. Some attachments are still not working as intended or just broken. Doesn't seem they cared to fix them so far
4. The Ashu Talif attachments, at least some of them, are really basilar. Seeing them sold for such high price was already an issue, now you can hardly buy them since on many server people don't bother to farm Teh Ashu Talif anymore. Making those attachments available from other sources (random drops from Ob?) would definitely be bliss

We'll see what happens, guess I shouldn't get my hopes too high though =/

[pchan]

[*]The Ashu Talif attachments, at least some of them, are really basilar. Seeing them sold for such high price was already an issue, now you can hardly buy them since on many server people don't bother to farm Teh Ashu Talif anymore. Making those attachments available from other sources (random drops from Ob?) would definitely be bliss[/list]

We'll see what happens, guess I shouldn't get my hopes too high though =/

They are easy to farm, people are lazy.

[Massimo]

sub nin and get an extra dual wield trait + inin which might actually stand a chance of working for thf with the 20% emnity reduction vs the usual "GDI i grabbed hate again" while gaining 30% crit. The acc pushes thf towards just enough acc to cap during tp if you didn't already as well.

This would also make Ambush viable, giving you even more accuracy.

[Taruking]

I surely hope they give NINs more dualwield traits and monks more martial arts trait, there would be no real point levelling to 99 w/o those imo.

Despite the common belief, monk is the job that feed the least TP to the mobs ( thanks to subtle blow trait/gears and penance), there is a huge difference in number of TP moves used when tanking a chariot with 2monks ( full time penance), vs other dds. For example THF, who attacks about as fast, will trigger like 5x more tp moves. Also, asuran fist is better than a gekko whenever both WS are attack and accuracy caped ( ie anything that's not an hnm).

Does Penance effect break the 50% subtle blow cap? Besides MNK, kikoku NIN can also hit SB cap iirc.

Asuran fist may be better but SAM can ws faster than MNK, the amount of TP fed to enemies in order for SAM to use gekko probabaly come out the same or less than MNK?

[Sechs]

Could potentially /DRG for 5% though. That would put you at 26% with swift.

At least for now, /DRG has been showed to be on par with /WAR for PUP. I personally liked /DRG more but I guess it was a matter of tastes.
With the new A skill those +10 acc from subjob become less important I guess, and with the higher resistance on automatons, it will be more reliable to swap hate to them after a Berserk Stringing Pummel.
Wil wait for some tests but I'm leaning to think /WAR might be above /DRG for a PUP with A skill.

[pchan]

Does Penance effect break the 50% subtle blow cap? Besides MNK, kikoku NIN can also hit SB cap iirc.

Asuran fist may be better but SAM can ws faster than MNK, the amount of TP fed to enemies in order for SAM to use gekko probabaly come out the same or less than MNK?

penance is not subtle blow

[seiji]

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Usukane_Hizayoroi

because you wear your pants on your feet?
and

No V Belt, would have to use Ninurta's. Which is awful. At least PUP can use Promptitude/enkidu (FEET) for those without Usukane.

Could potentially /DRG for 5% though. That would put you at 26% with swift.

l2r & stop putting leg gear in feet gear discussion

[pchan]

And still, counterstance, kick attacks, and martial arts > dead puppet (and I say dead because I really find it hard to find an event that BOTH the master and puppet can stay alive and damage at the same time), but that may be my ignorance of good pups.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/ff...Oil_Plus_2.jpg

If you are poor don't level PUP. Puppet and better WS > KA and 60 delay reduction.

Accuracy loss from full usu is irrelevant unless you are stupid enough to eat meat at merit camps.

Monk would eat meat at birds but that's not a real increase, I can manipulate the maths to make kabobs nearly useless with dia3 chaos and berserk. Same for pizza+full usu vs sushi+mix/match at MMJ. Watch PUP actually capping on lurkers when swapping to full usu and sushiing.

[Taruking]

penance is not subtle blow

I know it's not. My question is if you are already sitting at 50% SB cap, does penance add another 25% on top of that?

[Sechs]

Don't think the full haste setup on PUP was better than full usu at 225 base skill, at least in XP pts.
With 269 skill and sushi it could be nice instead.

Pchan, you did some maths already concerning fullhaste + sushi vs fullusu + pizza, assuming 269 skill?

[Sechs]

I know it's not. My question is if you are already sitting at 50% SB cap, does penance add another 25% on top of that?

Penance doesn't add subtle blow. It adds a different effect that reduces TP gain from all sources for the target that receives the effect of penance. The result is similar (the target gets less TP from your blows) but since the cause is different it of course "stacks" with Subtle Blow.

[seiji]

i dont see anything in the post i posted after mentioning anything about feet

yes while everybody else is.

enkidu subligar have haste?

/sigh, not legs

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Promptitude_Solea

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Enkidu%27s_Leggings

Get it?

also http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Setanta's_Ledelsens

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Usukane_Hizayoroi

the 3items linked in your quotes are feet, you link leg!

(multi edited for quote sorting (i sucked and post instead of preview)

[pchan]

no i link the only piece of leg wear pup has that has haste after it was suggested to use enkidu armor

Usu leg is not the only haste option.

[Scritch]

no i link the only piece of leg wear pup has that has haste after it was suggested to use enkidu armor

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/ff...ssasZerehs.png

+ ASA legs potentially

My point about Promptitude Solea was really about how its fairly easy for PUP to put together a decent haste set without even once entering Salvage now a days. You do have to 'sacrifice' your ASA legs or have fun with Barbarossa's Zerehs though.

And I just want to say this so people don't get the wrong idea: I AM NOT ADVOCATING NOT USING USUKANE OR SAYING THAT PROMPTITUDE IS BETTER THAN USUKANE. Some people do not do Salvage, or may have PUP as their first job and not be able to get into a Salvage group or whatever. I'm just pointing it out because for a long time people thought PUP's only options were "Full Usukane" or suck. We have options for more casual players now.

[Thorny]

What exactly is to stop pup from using /nin now that they dont have a giant attack deficiency while having access to a frame capable of self curing etc.

the fact that the haste difference posted is based on the pup using a wyvern earring(or stupid enough to advocate not using usu)

[pchan]

Don't think the full haste setup on PUP was better than full usu at 225 base skill, at least in XP pts.
With 269 skill and sushi it could be nice instead.

Pchan, you did some maths already concerning fullhaste + sushi vs fullusu + pizza, assuming 269 skill?

I didn't do the exact math, just eyeballing. Body slot is 18 accuracy 6% WS frequency, so whenever sushi is not capping you it's gonna beat nyzul body. For this to happen though you are looking at mobs that require 430+ acc to cap, so that's pretty rare. Also keep in mind that merits are actually a really poor place to evaluate the usefullness of a gear set, as not many mobs in endgame have that much EVA. Overall mix/match should perform better. For monk it's different b/c full usu caps haste, and provides store tp bonus which mix/match can't reach.

[pchan]

the fact that the haste difference posted is based on the pup using a wyvern earring

Nope. 4% haste difference /nin, 2% with ninurta still /nin.

[Taruking]

Penance doesn't add subtle blow. It adds a different effect that reduces TP gain from all sources for the target that receives the effect of penance. The result is similar (the target gets less TP from your blows) but since the cause is different it of course "stacks" with Subtle Blow.

So basically it's possible for MNKs to lower the amount of TP feeding to 25%. Gear selection should not gimp MNK performance too much since they only need 20% SB from gear alone.

I have lv75 MNK but I've never used it in any HNM fight. What sort of DOT damage can MNK do to stuffs like Wyrms? For example, Tiamat lands for 2 mins, fully merited penance lasts for 100 secs. Sounds like it's possible for a single MNK to contribute some damage when Tiamat is on the ground without triggering any TP move at all. When Tiamat takes flight, just get out of aoe range and charge up boost to get ready to use Chi Blast when she lands again.