March Version Update Job Adjustments

[Khajit]

This would also make Ambush viable, giving you even more accuracy.

Except it wouldnt since the innin trait would put any thf in halfassed gear at/past the acc cap except for hnm that the thf probably isn;t allowed to attack constantly. Ambush is still useless at least under /nin as unless you were gimp you wouldnt NEED the extra acc.

the fact that the haste difference posted is based on the pup using a wyvern earring(or stupid enough to advocate not using usu)

Except it isn't. You really need to read threads before you try to critique stuff that was answered previously with incorrect information.

[Thorny]

Except it isn't. You really need to read threads before you try to critique stuff that was answered previously with incorrect information.

please explain how pup can get 21% haste without giving up usukane

also, advocating both sushi and /nin is pretty laughable unless you're getting attack buffs(which is less than ideal for the rest unless you have a rotating brd or something similar).. 1 buffer = BRD singing marches, 2 = brd singing marches + dnc with 10% haste samba..you need 3 or a rotating one to justify using a pup in place of a real dd

really, the job got a big boost, but it's still not going to keep up with mnk in any way

[Khajit]

please explain how pup can get 21% haste without giving up usukane

Please explain why an A skill job would be gimp for wearing more haste instead of usukane.

[Thorny]

Please explain why an A skill job would be gimp for wearing more haste instead of usukane.

something about having no accuracy on their tp gear comparatively and no accuracy enhancing traits or abilities natively

it's a boost, but pup still needs more.. look at how much accuracy the other A skill jobs get on their haste gear

[Neosutra]

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/ff...Oil_Plus_2.jpg

If you are poor don't level PUP. Puppet and better WS > KA and 60 delay reduction.

Accuracy loss from full usu is irrelevant unless you are stupid enough to eat meat at merit camps.

Monk would eat meat at birds but that's not a real increase, I can manipulate the maths to make kabobs nearly useless with dia3 chaos and berserk. Same for pizza+full usu vs sushi+mix/match at MMJ. Watch PUP actually capping on lurkers when swapping to full usu and sushiing.

I love how completely biased you are on every post you make about pup, and how you continually only point at numbers that support your retarded debate.

First, it isnt "Puppet and better WS > KA and 60 delay reduction".

Its actually "Puppet and similar WS vs KA, FOCUS, COUNTERSTANCE, 60 delay reduction, and 4% haste (which adds the fuck up with double march and haste)". Nice to conviently leave off 30 acc, 55%+ return damage, and haste cap. Not to mention giving up the shit ton of acc from Usukane by going pure haste set on pup to close the gap to only 4%..

And keep singing the "its retarded to eat meat because Im always capped on attack lol", bullshit. Shit is situational and meat has a damn powerful place in the game (no you dont always get chaos + double minuets + dia3 and no every mob's defense isnt the same. I love pizza, but I dont go around saying retarded comments like meat is useless.

And no, Automaton Oil+2 doesnt make your puppet invincible, even with cannabil blade puppets still need desperate changes to damage taken and/or life sustaining abilities.

[Ninjiz]

Haven't seen real tests (hard to test it anyway... 225 skill vs 276, not to count the difference in available gear, counts a lot) but I'd dare to say that, yeah, if Monks could use Stringing Pummel, I think it would be better than Asuran Fists.

Don't drool yet though, SE can still gimp Stringing Pummel modifiers/stats to avoid it being too leet with the new 269ish H2H skill of PUPs.

The update in itself is leet, PUP definitely needed more Acc, with skill we're getting also more base damage and attack, so it's just creamy.
This will make PUP with sharpshot quite a nice option for Birds parties, but I don't think this alone will grant PUPs a spot in end-game, excluding those situations where they already can sometimes get a spot (With BLM doll).

I'm more leaning toward the announced automaton tweaks. Having something like pets have in WoW (they take waaay less damage from AoE spells/abilities that do not directly target them) would be nice, but I guess we can't hope for SE to go that far.
While A skill is, like I said, creamy I think there are still issues to be solved

1. Mage AI (especially Soulsoother one). The way it prioritizes spells in some situations just makes no sense, I can't see why they haven't fixed it or even acknowledged of this issue (sometimes they said "we'll fix it" some other times they say "it's working perfectly, as intended")
2. Mage cooldowns. Splitting them in 2 (similarly to how they did for Blood pacts long time ago) could fix this limit. Like having buffs/debuffs/-Na spells on one timer and healing ones on another (for soulsoother), or debuffs/drain/aspir/lolabsint on one timer, and nukes on the other for SpiritReaver.
3. Some attachments are still not working as intended or just broken. Doesn't seem they cared to fix them so far
4. The Ashu Talif attachments, at least some of them, are really basilar. Seeing them sold for such high price was already an issue, now you can hardly buy them since on many server people don't bother to farm Teh Ashu Talif anymore. Making those attachments available from other sources (random drops from Ob?) would definitely be bliss

We'll see what happens, guess I shouldn't get my hopes too high though =/

There would no reason to weaken stringing pummel. I don't think 41ish extra attack is going to cause our pummels to fly through the roof. All the 41-45 ac and attk will do is make those higher pummels we see more consistant. Unless of course the extra dmg tiers make some kinda gigantic leap... What is it? 3 more dmg?

[Bingbong]

Hell, All CORs should bitch and moan to raise our marksmenship to A to be with Rangers.

QFT^^

[Khajit]

something about having no accuracy on their tp gear comparatively and no accuracy enhancing traits or abilities natively

it's a boost, but pup still needs more.. look at how much accuracy the other A skill jobs get on their haste gear

GDI. i accidentlyall the whole post.
Short version since i dont feel like mathing everything out atm:
My thf can cap acc(or nearly) w pizza vs mamools(which are harder to hit acc wise than whatever it is we're going to be exping on probably) in the non feint setup so therefore if a pup can match that acc it doesnt need the acc from usu.
A- skill on thf while pup has A skill gives pup the advantage off the bat.
Oberon's is 8~10 h2h skill which beat out blau's 5 acc unless the offhand is a fay dagger.
The rest of the is at best a 1~2 acc difference other than neck/earring 1 which negate each other thanks to hollow as thf needs a suppa when /nin.
So in the end there really isnt any need for excessive amounts of acc at the loss of haste unless you've suddently changed your name to Konda and tp in full Usu With polearm on sam at birds.
Would you like an askar helm to wear too cause you're making essentially the same argument.
Plus this is before we even get the new level caps adjusted for since now every single level pup gets means it gains more acc than the thf does due to skill difference (ignoring Sj) AND we are getting possible merit category increase to further close the gap between uncapped and capped acc if there somehow is one.
I do admit that im being rather silly by expecting a person to fully merit the jobs in my examples.

[dantaro]

no i link the only piece of leg wear pup has that has haste after it was suggested to use enkidu armor

Because the post I originally quoted was about feet armor dumbass. No shit that enkidu legs don't have haste, but it's NOT IMPORTANT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FUCKING FEET ARMOR.

[Neosutra]

GDI. i accidentlyall the whole post.
Short version since i dont feel like mathing everything out atm:
My thf can cap acc(or nearly) w pizza vs mamools(which are harder to hit acc wise than whatever it is we're going to be exping on probably) in the non feint setup so therefore if a pup can match that acc it doesnt need the acc from usu.
A- skill on thf while pup has A skill gives pup the advantage off the bat.
The rest of the is at best a 1~2 acc difference other than neck/earring 1 which negate each other thanks to hollow as thf needs a suppa when /nin.
So in the end there really isnt any need for excessive amounts of acc at the loss of haste unless you've suddently changed your name to Konda and tp in full Usu With polearm on sam at birds.
Would you like an askar helm to wear too cause you're making essentially the same argument.
Plus this is before we even get the new level caps adjusted for since now every single level pup gets means it gains more acc than the thf does due to skill difference (ignoring Sj)

So what you're saying is: Your thf (wearing 15 acc from homam, 4 from hands, 3 from legs) over the pup's no acc in those 3 slots in full haste build) will be about the same as a pup since pup as a a couple more skill points.. No.

Not to mention, you're still not capped on attack for those mobs and pizza is a very large attack loss over good meat. Also, even with Pizza and the new H2H skill buff, pup isnt going to cap on acc vs high evasion mobs like lurkers and wyverns at Mamool, unless feint is applied.

[pchan]

something about having no accuracy on their tp gear comparatively and no accuracy enhancing traits or abilities natively

it's a boost, but pup still needs more.. look at how much accuracy the other A skill jobs get on their haste gear

If your argument is that other jobs have acc on their TP gear so they can use meat you're going to lose said argument. Mix and match + pizza is cap accuracy on anything that is lower than Merit mobs. This include 95% of endgame content. Monk getting 30 attack from using yellow curry in the same events is not enough to make a decisive difference. The difference between both jobs will be TP gain speed. Monk punch faster with KA but pup have a better WS and slightly more TP/fist (~ 1 TP so that's like one less round). Also PUP have a puppet that will do ~ 25% of their global damage.


Just for the record, my full usu pup was doing about 75% of mdk's monk with uncapped accuracy and with puppet.

[Neosutra]

That's more a statement against mdk's monk than your pup lol.

And since when is 95% of endgame content lower than merit mobs, what the fuck kind of endgame do you play?

And again you ignored Focus, Counterstance, 12 str, 8 dex, shit load of acc, and haste cap difference. It isnt just 60 delay and KAs..

[Khajit]

So what you're saying is: Your thf (wearing 15 acc from homam, 4 from hands, 3 from legs) over the pup's no acc in those 3 slots in full haste build) will be about the same as a pup since pup as a a couple more skill points.. No.

Not to mention, you're still not capped on attack for those mobs and pizza is a very large attack loss over good meat.

Are you fucking stupid? Seriously..
Hands is a 3 acc difference if not dusk+1 for thieves rich enough to have it thanks to the dex+3 on relic hands
3~4 on legs vs the +5 dex on usukane legs which is 3 acc if you even your dex that way making a 1 acc difference at best.
And i thought we as a playerbase figured out that going for meat/acc gear at the loss of haste when was retarded at least a year or two ago. But yes. please go on about your huge attack because you designed your gear to whiff more while attacking slower( or to have the same acc at the loss of a HUGE chunk of haste.
And where are you getting 15 acc from homam? it better not be that body which is shit vs 4% haste when you have decent acc. If you mean the feet then 6 cc vs 7 acc on usu feet then a big whoop de doo at the 1 acc difference. Your argument isnt making any logical sense.
What i was saying is that if i can cap acc in X accuracy then if a different job(pup) can attain MORE accuracy in full haste gear as the difference in acc between the "best" slots is offset by the higher skill rating then what is the point of getting 131254534534 acc over the cap at the loss of haste?
You guys are arguming for askar helms and denali bonnets here.

[Neosutra]

Are you fucking stupid? Seriously..
Hands is a 3 acc difference if not dusk+1 for thieves rich enough to have it thanks to the dex+3 on relic hands
3~4 on legs vs the +5 dex on usukane legs which is 3 acc if you even your dex that way making a 1 acc difference at best.
And i thought we as a playerbase figured out that going for meat/acc gear at the loss of haste when was retarded at least a year or two ago. But yes. please go on about your huge attack because you designed your gear to whiff more while attacking slower.
And where are you getting 15 acc from homam? it better not be that body which is shit vs 4% haste when you have decent acc. If you mean the feet then 6 cc vs 7 acc on usu feet then a big whoop de doo at the 1 acc difference. Your argument isnt making any logical sense.
What i was saying is that if i can cap acc in X accuracy then if a different job(pup) can attain MORE accuracy in full haste gear as the difference in acc between the "best" slots is offset by the higher skill rating then what is the point of getting 131254534534 acc over the cap at the loss of haste?
You guys are arguming for askar helms and denali bonnets here.

First you dibbling idiot, punctuate and use proper sentence structure so it isnt a headache to even read your post.

Second, as we said before: No you are not capping accuracy on all mobs at mamool (and no evasion isnt static across all mobs in the game you fucking moron), especially without feint (oh ya, pups dont get that). With pizza and full merits, you can get away with popping full haste and being "near" cap (but not at cap) on many of the lower evasion mobs. For thf, getting near the haste cap and trading 15 acc + 1% TA is reasonable (in certain situations) by using your lvl 50 JSE body for 4% more haste to get you from 20->24%. Pup however gives up a SHIT TON more accuracy to just go from 17% haste (2 feet, 3 legs, 3 hands, 5 head, 4 belt) to 21% haste (add goliard). It isnt the same trade by a long shot, and that's not even considering the stat losses and defensive boosts.

It isnt just "lol trading haste for more attack wiff wiff" you fucking moron. I know it must be late for you but jesus christ.

[mdkuser]

Just for the record, my full usu pup was doing about 75% of mdk's THF with uncapped accuracy and with puppet.

fixed. also could not use neither SA or TA because PUP cant pull hate of THF, losing 25% of my dmg.

[Khajit]

Because in a cor brd dnc party the dnc cant just use Pyrrhic Whatever to lower acc if the pt needs it eh you stupid fuck? Lack of feint is already covered in a standard merit pt.
Your entire argument is predicated upon you wearing MORE acc than is needed to lose a substantial amount of haste which if hasso is any indication will cause nearly a 30% damage drop by not using the haste instead while at/nearly capped acc in a high haste situation.

[Sechs]

There would no reason to weaken stringing pummel. I don't think 41ish extra attack is going to cause our pummels to fly through the roof. All the 41-45 ac and attk will do is make those higher pummels we see more consistant. Unless of course the extra dmg tiers make some kinda gigantic leap... What is it? 3 more dmg?

Base damage increase should be around +8, at least in my case (merits and faith). For others it should be ~7?
Considering Stringing Pummel ALREADY dose a very nice damage... you never know what could happen with +8ish and + 70ish attack (and + what, 60ish accuracy?)
Seems like a big boost to me. Won't "break" the WS of course, but it will be a nice boost.
Anyway, before I get misunderstood even more, I was NOT advocating a gimping of Stringing Pummel! I'm actually hoping SE will not, but you know how things go with SE... Guess I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to tweak something with SP.

[Neosutra]

Yes Khajit, you're always going to be capped on acc and any acc in TP sets is overkill because there is pizza.

Spoiler: show

Please god pick up on the sarcasm..

Also, every party I am in has a brd, cor, and dnc, dia3, and we are fighting feinted mobs that have just had 3 shots of tequila and aren't too evasive.

I'll add that to Pchan's famous "30-40 attack difference isnt much difference because we are always capped on attack anyways".

[pchan]

fixed. also could use neither SA or TA because PUP cant pull hate of THF, losing 25% of my dmg.

nope the comparison I am referring too is pup vs monk.

[pchan]

Yes Khajit, you're always going to be capped on acc and any acc in TP sets is overkill because there is pizza.

Spoiler: show

Please god pick up on the sarcasm..

Also, every party I am in has a brd, cor, and dnc, dia3, and we are fighting feinted mobs that have just had 3 shots of tequila and aren't too evasive.

I'll add that to Pchan's famous "30-40 attack difference isnt much difference because we are always capped on attack anyways".

I forgot you used double bard rotation in salvage, so I understand that the concept of capping attack is strange to you. Nothing beats attacking fast. Accuracy is fixed by food, attack speed is fixed by haste gear. DDing 101.