FFXIV Closed Alpha/Beta Discussion (Cancelled for this week)

[bluefan]

??? I never said, nor did SE in their interview ever say that Beta 2 = open.

Bwahaha....my bad. Quoted the wrong one.

Sorry, have a cake

[Chakra]

Bwahaha....my bad. Quoted the wrong one.

Sorry, have a cake

Oh! lol

Mmm I love cake.

[Alderaan]

Relaying this from the Eorzeapedia forums.

http://www.massively.com/2010/04/10/...opes-and-drea/

What is this trash?!

Complaining that everything isn't spelled out completely for him and that he hates having to figure stuff out on his own. Guess he didn't know the games in alpha before writing that up.

[Kirb]

That's not going to be the case with FFXIV. The endgame will still be polished, but when you compare it to the breadth of options in Vana'diel, you're going to feel pretty constrained. As a result, a lot of people will rush to the end of the leveling curve and find themselves distressingly locked out of doing anything.

Hey guys, FFXIV is going to have less endgame options than an MMO that's been out for 8 years, and this makes me angry

[Seanr]

Remember the good days....


http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af111/jcobs/daoc.jpg

Why in the fuck would I want that many motherfuckers around me...
That's like Steve Harvey's analogy to Rap Concerts and everyone having a damn mic.

[bluefan]

Hey guys, FFXIV is going to have less endgame options than an MMO that's been out for 8 years, and this makes me angry

It's why I just skim most of Massively's "articles".

That author really seems to have the "It's too much and/or too little like XI" syndrome. No known cure for it yet, and the only way to save his pitiful soul is just vaporize it with the Soul Extinguisher Mach 5000.

[Gokulo]

You shouldn't even post it and save people the brain hurt the article induces.

[Lucavi]

Relaying this from the Eorzeapedia forums.

http://www.massively.com/2010/04/10/...opes-and-drea/

What is this trash?!

I'm not seeing the trash. Its a pretty decent article in my onion. Those are all legitimate reasons, and the writer sounds like someone who is more for FFXI than WoW, which seems to be a mandatory requirement for people around here.

I'm not seeing the problem.

[Kirb]

No, you will not censor this modern day prophet

Oddly, part of the problem is going to be that it looks a lot easier to level Disciplines than Jobs have traditionally been.

How else could he have gleamed such piercing truth from an alpha video

I'm not seeing the problem.

Aside from determining exactly how the game endgame will work and judging it as so? From alpha information?

Complaining that XIV won't have an expansion tied to it and two years of tweaking like XI did?

Complaining about flying blind because the JP haven't made a beaten path? Really? I dunno, man.

He brings up some points worthy of concern, then some points that make me scratch my head and go 'duh?', and then determines that it's going to play out exactly like he says.

Basically, this is an article of assumption written as truth, and that's a problem.

[bluefan]

I'm not seeing the trash. Its a pretty decent article in my onion. Those are all legitimate reasons, and the writer sounds like someone who is more for FFXI than WoW, which seems to be a mandatory requirement for people around here.

I'm not seeing the problem.

Look a bit closer. He says quite a few things that...just don't make sense.

On the one hand, yes, this means that it'll be a little while before gear/class/whatever elitism kicks in. On the other hand, which is instinctively curling into a fist, it means that we will have a whole lot of things where we have to puzzle out how we're supposed to fit everything into a larger framework. How abilities and classes are supposed to work together, what the best stats for each class are, whether or not you can manage a gathering profession reasonably into a combat character, and even what abilities will actually develop over time... yeah. We aren't going to know any of that until we've had a chance to make guesses and come up with a lot of wrong answers first.

Translation: Where's my QuestHelper?!!?

Oh noes, a brand new MMO where most players will have to spend a week or two learning about the game. The joy about new MMOs is figuring that all out. It's about exploring new worlds, characters, stories...

The idiot even brought up the Window Key issue.

This article is garbage. It really is.

[Kalisa]

I'm not seeing the trash. Its a pretty decent article in my onion. Those are all legitimate reasons, and the writer sounds like someone who is more for FFXI than WoW, which seems to be a mandatory requirement for people around here.

I'm not seeing the problem.

Gotta agree. I mean, all we ever hear out of our devs is "if there's demand for that sort of thing [whatever "that sort of thing" is] we'll consider it." You might disagree about whether it's a good or a bad thing, but the article's author feels it's a bad thing and is expressing that. It's still true.

And it's true that the hardcore players who are used to filling up their FFXI calendar with two days of Nyzul/Assault statics, two days of Dynamis, a day of Einherjar, and various amounts of Salvage, sky, ZNMs, VNMs, kings, Magian trials, missions for your friends, farming for consumables and white borders, and so forth on top of leveling whatever job they haven't gotten around to yet are going to be bored. It took SE eight years to release everything I mentioned. The diehards are going to power Lancer (or whatever) to 50 and be like YEAH BITCH WHAT NOW.... ok seriously what now? There's sure to be an endgame activity or two, but at the beginning you're going to get really bored if you don't level the shit out of various jobs or crafts in your spare time. It's a valid concern.

And I've wondered myself whether they're going to correct all the little annoyances, or carry over some of the FFXI system improvements they've given us. Again, valid concern.

...though I do think the guy's a whiny little bitch for complaining we're going to have to figure things out on our own for a while. XD

[Lunarhawk]

Fuck figuring things out
I'm just gonna keep doing the quests I get till someone else figures it out

[bluefan]

Gotta agree. I mean, all we ever hear out of our devs is "if there's demand for that sort of thing [whatever "that sort of thing" is] we'll consider it." You might disagree about whether it's a good or a bad thing, but the article's author feels it's a bad thing and is expressing that. It's still true.

And it's true that the hardcore players who are used to filling up their FFXI calendar with two days of Nyzul/Assault statics, two days of Dynamis, a day of Einherjar, and various amounts of Salvage, sky, ZNMs, VNMs, kings, Magian trials, missions for your friends, farming for consumables and white borders, and so forth on top of leveling whatever job they haven't gotten around to yet are going to be bored. It took SE eight years to release everything I mentioned. The diehards are going to power Lancer (or whatever) to 50 and be like YEAH BITCH WHAT NOW.... ok seriously what now? There's sure to be an endgame activity or two, but at the beginning you're going to get really bored if you don't level the shit out of various jobs or crafts in your spare time. It's a valid concern.

And I've wondered myself whether they're going to correct all the little annoyances, or carry over some of the FFXI system improvements they've given us. Again, valid concern.

Valid points. Also want to add that most developers gets the idea on how to design "end game" content after watching how players interact with the current model they've thrown at them. SE has an idea on how they want to do things at that stage, but it's more common then not that those ideas are usually altered or scrapped entirely after watching the players for a few months.

...though I do think the guy's a whiny little bitch for complaining we're going to have to figure things out on our own for a while. XD

No kidding. How is it not fun figuring out a new game? I was completely mesmerized by XI when I first started it, and then the same with WoW when I transitioned over. Might just be the puzzler in me, but learning how stuff works is just fun.

[Kirb]

How is it not fun figuring out a new game?

Hell, it's the MOST fun for me. There's nothing I love more than mapping out new territory and figuring stuff out for myself.

I guess I know that some people would rather have an FAQ written for them or something, but it's just stupid to be complaining about that as the game comes out. Does this guy go to gamefaqs and read the JP guides every time a JRPG comes out in the US?

[Ryuushin]

Gotta agree. I mean, all we ever hear out of our devs is "if there's demand for that sort of thing [whatever "that sort of thing" is] we'll consider it." You might disagree about whether it's a good or a bad thing, but the article's author feels it's a bad thing and is expressing that. It's still true.

And it's true that the hardcore players who are used to filling up their FFXI calendar with two days of Nyzul/Assault statics, two days of Dynamis, a day of Einherjar, and various amounts of Salvage, sky, ZNMs, VNMs, kings, Magian trials, missions for your friends, farming for consumables and white borders, and so forth on top of leveling whatever job they haven't gotten around to yet are going to be bored. It took SE eight years to release everything I mentioned. The diehards are going to power Lancer (or whatever) to 50 and be like YEAH BITCH WHAT NOW.... ok seriously what now? There's sure to be an endgame activity or two, but at the beginning you're going to get really bored if you don't level the shit out of various jobs or crafts in your spare time. It's a valid concern.

And I've wondered myself whether they're going to correct all the little annoyances, or carry over some of the FFXI system improvements they've given us. Again, valid concern.

...though I do think the guy's a whiny little bitch for complaining we're going to have to figure things out on our own for a while. XD

What are ya talkin about? A lot of the events you can't use the 8 year timeline because some of the expansions weren't right there at the start. Yeah SE took a long time to listen to the player base but they are moving forward rather than running in place.

Examples(even if you don't like them): Fields of Valor, MMM, ZNM, ANNM, Einherjar, Salvage loot increase(supposedly). SE eventually came up with item restoration(though limited), ways of battling RMT, shabby windower but implemented nonetheless. There's a post on FFXI Advanced where 2 people got their dropped items back(black belt and relic horn) which wasn't doable till people collectively sent in emails.

They've gone the route of twitter, rss feeds and youtube to try and reach out the base now. However I think that article is ludicrous with no real facts or substance..

Examples in his article..: No end game? He bases that on leveling disciplines when the game isn't even out. He's making a baseless claim and says it's also because of the smaller world. I know that the developers have said it will be a smaller world than VANA'DIEL but bigger than what FFXI was at launch.

Another example is him saying FFXIV may be copying WoW.. but what is that based on? Game isn't out so we don't know what the game play is like or what strategies are needed for harder fights. Also, from what we've seen so far, the battle system is completely different so this article is just false speculation rather than facts.

[Lunarhawk]

The best thing about a new game is a dumb economy
someone could put something up for cheap that a week later when people know it's real value and rarity would be worth 30x as much

go go dumb economy

[bluefan]

The best thing about a new game is a dumb economy
someone could put something up for cheap that a week later when people know it's real value and rarity would be worth 30x as much

go go dumb economy

It's why I always keep things I'm not so sure about the value of. Also why I'm always completely broke near the start because of spending money on expanding my inventory space...

[Alderaan]

The part about the devs and communication is obvious, everyone knows this. The rest is bitching for the sake of bitching.

Personally, i see no fun in following a quest tracker or guide when everything is new. I can figure it out on my own and possibly be the first to do so.

[Kalisa]

What are ya talkin about? A lot of the events you can't use the 8 year timeline because some of the expansions weren't right there at the start. Yeah SE took a long time to listen to the player base but they are moving forward rather than running in place.

Examples(even if you don't like them): Fields of Valor, MMM, ZNM, ANNM, Einherjar, Salvage loot increase(supposedly). SE eventually came up with item restoration(though limited), ways of battling RMT, shabby windower but implemented nonetheless. There's a post on FFXI Advanced where 2 people got their dropped items back(black belt and relic horn) which wasn't doable till people collectively sent in emails.

I totally understand what you're getting at, but I gotta say that explaining away endgame content because "it only took time because the expansion wasn't there yet" doesn't really strike me as valid. Those expansions took time to develop partially because those endgame activities took time to develop. The fact does still remain that FFXI is a progressive work over eight years' time, and we're simply not going to have enough to fill all that spare time in endgame activities alone when 14 first releases. No MMO ever does, unless you adjust the content in such a way that entry-level endgame is repeatable as in the old days of taking raid groups into Stratholme.

Yes, SE is moving forward. Yes, they'll probably incorporate some of that movement into FFXIV. But we can't expect it all from the get-go. It would be foolish. People are going to have high expectations that are going to get smushed when they realize they're the new kid in a big new world that they don't fully understand yet, without anything but leveling and guildleves to fall back on. I'm ok with that. Some people will be pissy. They're valid concerns.

Examples in his article..: No end game? He bases that on leveling disciplines when the game isn't even out. He's making a baseless claim and says it's also because of the smaller world. I know that the developers have said it will be a smaller world than VANA'DIEL but bigger than what FFXI was at launch.

Just to come back to this point; I'm sure the guy's not basing this fact on "I saw a guy get level 2 real easy on some stream I got linked to," but based on the fact that FFXIV is a new game without all that time behind it, and no new MMO really has a full docket of endgame activities right away. If they did, there'd be nowhere to go short of level cap increases and entirely new content, but SE isn't that kind of company IMO.

Another example is him saying FFXIV may be copying WoW.. but what is that based on? Game isn't out so we don't know what the game play is like or what strategies are needed for harder fights. Also, from what we've seen so far, the battle system is completely different so this article is just false speculation rather than facts.

You can definitely see WoW influences in the UI, there's no getting around that. The quest system and quick transport are also influences. Beyond that, I don't think anyone can make the claim that it's borrowing that much.

[Ryuushin]

I understand your point as well. However, I think it's best to try to be as reserved as possible when it comes to new information because way too many people jump to conclusions when something shows up that they don't like.

Example is when there was someone streaming the Alpha game play and the attack system looked slow(even I thought it looked slow), some people quickly judged it to be the same as FFXI. I honestly could see that concern but we need to take a step back when we react to new information because things can change drastically. Using the same example, I quoted one of the interviews few pages back:

"Q. The battle is command-oriented, but will the time it takes to use a command differ from weapon to weapon?
A. Yes. Furthermore, we will be adjusting this timing based on the alpha testers’ feedback."

So.. yes we can judge the game based on what we know now but is it really at the stage where we can make an informed opinion? I don't think so.