FFXIV Closed Alpha/Beta Discussion (Cancelled for this week)

[mintyice]

Well you can say that about the game as a whole. Really, what is the point in leveling or doing anything else for that matter? There is no end and you can't beat it. It pretty much is just a massive time-sink that you throw money away to do. You can extend your argument further than just endgame and argue against the game as a whole.

[Kyrra]

i gave up playing FFXI like 5 years ago because anyone would party with WHM rather than RDM

felt like the ugly duckling

For leveling, ya. I got lucky as an RDM and ran a static group from level 44 to 75. RDM, WHM, RNG, NIN, DRG. The last spot was filled by DRK or THF. (the DRG organized the static).

I was a mana battery, did backup healing and bursted on skillchains. It was a fun job for me.

[Machazareel]

You can be an elitist without being a rude arrogant asshole. Sure, a lot of elitists are, but not everyone.

You turn into a rude arrogant asshole after spending years trying to reason calmly and logically with full blown retards who refuse to believe that they shouldn't be meleeing in those flame rings they spent so much gil on.
Elitists get jaded because they know the ins and outs of the game, and when even constructive, polite criticism is met with tardrage, they eventually get sick of being nice, and notice that being a prick about it is often more effective (And it really is when dealing with most people on forums). People don't seem to want to change things unless they feel there are consequences for not doing so, in this case, being verbally abused.

I never had a problem with people being undergeared, that's something they don't necessarily have that much control over, especially in FFXI. But straight out and out retarded decisions, using expensive gear that wasn't nearly as good as much cheaper alternatives, which is often coupled with a lot of other bad decisions, does irk me a bit, especially when the information to improve that said fuck up is practically thrown at you in any online forum of moderate popularity. I know, I know, people have their own playstyles, but in a heavily group-based game, your horrible decisions and playstyle is affecting other people.

That said, I only went into asshole mode when people gave out false information, or claimed that those STR rings were better "bcuz i hit 4 moar". Obviously backed up with math. People hate math, though.

[Kachi]

Well you can say that about the game as a whole. Really, what is the point in leveling or doing anything else for that matter? There is no end and you can't beat it. It pretty much is just a massive time-sink that you throw money away to do. You can extend your argument further than just endgame and argue against the game as a whole.

It's for fun, and fun is never a waste of time.

However, there are a disturbing number of hardcore players who exercise that little thing called "delay of gratification" obsessively. They'll enjoy the game after they're the best. After they get that 1 more glove with the +2 ATT. Yeah, that's when they'll enjoy it. See, people are actually quite proficient at doing things that they don't enjoy by convincing themselves that it will pay off in the end. Sometimes they even do it for years.

Personally, I like being a hardcore player, but XI was just ridiculous. You shouldn't have to bore yourself to death playing the sit-and-wait game just to experience some of the most meaningful aspects of endgame. Hardcore should be about a level of play, not a level of real life dedication and sacrifice.

[Coren]

For leveling, ya. I got lucky as an RDM and ran a static group from level 44 to 75. RDM, WHM, RNG, NIN, DRG. The last spot was filled by DRK or THF. (the DRG organized the static).

I was a mana battery, did backup healing and bursted on skillchains. It was a fun job for me.

That was how I got my DRG to 75... organized parties myself. loltarudrg

[mr.bryce]

does anyone know of a facebook page thats not afraid of leaking info ?

[Bolter]

That's how I got to 75 too back in the day on my elvaan DRG. This was many years ago now... I would make all my parties and usually mostly with JP players since I tended to play early in the morning.

I liked it though, playing the underdog forced me to become a good leader and learn my shit as far as group tactics and camps go. Here's to hoping I get to do that again in FFXIV!

[Cairthenn]

does anyone know of a facebook page thats not afraid of leaking info ?

LOL

[zalasta]

There is something to be said about being first, and it isn't exclusively related to being hardcore. Most fun I had in XI was exploring sky during the summer of 2004, pretty much before most, if not all, of the English speaking LS. 6 months later Sky became a totally different place, filled with drama, MPK and some of the worst players you don't care to meet. I count myself lucky because Sky was a great experience for me, not simply just a place to get gears like it was for those that came after.

[roippi]

I'd also point out that the rise of (hyper)elitism in XI was enabled by the creation of user tools (parser) and the low number of degrees of freedom in various calculations*. I doubt we'll have a parser on day 0 and there are going to be far more DOF than before. Doesn't mean we'll never get to the "this is the optimal configuration for everything" point in XIV, just that it'll take a while to get there.

* i.e. "damage" is basically a function of lots of stuff, f(job, stats, race, equipment, buffs, mob type and level, etc). We were eventually able to optimize that function to find the maxima for pretty much everything. With all DOF known, the vector is fully determined, yada yada.

[Seanr]

....trying to get stuff done, don't have time to waste, and can't always deal with that.

Time to waste? We're PLAYING a GAME A Games purpose is to have fun.
granted, yes, fun to some people is being the first to get things done, and then cockblock others from getting those same things done.

"Getting stuff done?"

When an MMO has become a job, you're not doing it right.

^

Elitists get jaded because they know the ins and outs of the game

Do we need to know the ins and outs of the ENTIRE Game before it even hits beta?

I can guarantee this would be the case if we had access to all the cities in alpha.

what would be the point of even playing at that point?

I'd also point out that the rise of (hyper)elitism in XI was enabled by the creation of user tools (parser) and the low number of degrees of freedom in various calculations*. I doubt we'll have a parser on day 0

We probably will have parsers and this and that day 1

I just think all in all, we're skipping 1st, 2nd, and 3rd base and just pulling down XIV's pants from the get go... Cuz we feel as though we don't have time to waste.

[Kalisa]

Honestly, guys.

If you want to leave some stuff to discover, don't read the bigass spoiler thread that you're posting in. If you're thirsty for every scrap of new info, keep reading. If you're thirsty for every scrap of new info AND want to leave some stuff to discover, work yourself out--it's gotta be one or the other, and you'll have to practice some adult self-control about either (a) not clicking on this thread or (b) not complaining that we don't share your point of view about any discovery being sacred.

/endtangent?

[Sinzfeldt]

I say fuck people and their parsers i'll still end up better than them anyway.

[Jinko]

I doubt we'll have a parser on day 0 and there are going to be far more DOF than before. [/SIZE]

I wouldn't be surprised if there are alpha testers out there trying to figure it out at the moment.

[mr.bryce]

LOL

please elaborate

[Xerxes]

Just quit FFXI today it feels good to be done with it after seven years. The version update made the decision very easy.

the lvl 99cap will either kill the game or allow it to continue for a bit longer then it would have at lvl75 cap.

[Seanr]

Honestly, guys.

If you want to leave some stuff to discover, don't read the bigass spoiler thread that you're posting in. If you're thirsty for every scrap of new info, keep reading. If you're thirsty for every scrap of new info AND want to leave some stuff to discover, work yourself out--it's gotta be one or the other, and you'll have to practice some adult self-control about either (a) not clicking on this thread or (b) not complaining that we don't share your point of view about any discovery being sacred.

/endtangent?

You get out of here with your logic! Right now! Git!

[Sereal_Killer]

MMOs aren't about being the best and showing off. I refuse to believe people who think that way are actually enjoying the game.

When people reminisce about how much fun they had playing an MMO, it's always memories of when they were a newb: before they understood the game and stopped caring about having fun.

Playing FFXI, all I heard about was the "nightmare of having to EXP with newbs." But EXPing with newbs was probably the most exciting thing I ever did after hitting 75. You finally meet people who are bearable to talk to and are just trying to have fun.

i know. i would hop on whm and help random parties out and if needed explain a few things.

for me the whole point of getting to 75 wasnt to have the job maxed out because till this day i didnt go all nuts with merits and stuff. it was so i could have fun learn the job and help people who mightn not know how to play the job. the most fun i have in FFXI has nothing to do with battle at all it was the time my LS got together and said farewell to a friend who had to quit FFXI. we all got together had fun shared stories shot off some firworks and just messed around o our jobs.

like others have said when the game becomes "mandatory" aka a job your doing something wrong IMO.

thats why im not doing sky sea or anything end game. they expect you here at X time and i should have x amount of time to dedicate etc.

i prefer that when i have time to play i can just log on and hopefully the ls will have enough people on that if we were bored we could just spontaneously decide to do some assault or other group activity

I have nothing against goign thru dats and i enjoy doing that aswell for me it an adventure on its own to see if you can discover something new. but when the games is launched im gonna be mesmorized anyway by how all the info we have gathered is actualy implemented and visualized.

and really if you are complaining about to much info in this thread your kind of a hypocrite becuase the whole reason you are reading this is so you can get info thats not suposed to be released yet.

[Machazareel]

Do we need to know the ins and outs of the ENTIRE Game before it even hits beta?

I can guarantee this would be the case if we had access to all the cities in alpha.

what would be the point of even playing at that point?

I have no idea how you pulled that out of there, that has absolutely nothing to do with what I said, and is actually completely contradictory to my post before it.

[Lucavi]

MMOs aren't about being the best and showing off. I refuse to believe people who think that way are actually enjoying the game.

When people reminisce about how much fun they had playing an MMO, it's always memories of when they were a newb: before they understood the game and stopped caring about having fun.

Playing FFXI, all I heard about was the "nightmare of having to EXP with newbs." But EXPing with newbs was probably the most exciting thing I ever did after hitting 75. You finally meet people who are bearable to talk to and are just trying to have fun.

Tell that to EX. I thought MMOs were all about showing off your 15 relics funded with botted HNM gil and stolen ex-LS banks?

Huh, who knew?

MMOs, to me, are about becoming strong. What is my potential vs. what do I have to do to attain that potential? Do I have to cheat? Steal? Exploit? Do I simply have to grind it out and work hard, or am I perhaps supposed to view cheating, stealing, botting, and exploiting AS working hard?

If I have to get my hands dirty to attain strength in a MMO, then I've already become strong enough. That's how I've played every MMO thus far.