FFXIV Closed Alpha/Beta Discussion (Cancelled for this week)

[Vacht]

but ganking is so much fun! even when YOURE ganked! You can be evil, or 'holy' whichever you choose.

[bluefan]

dark age is a perfect example of balancing classes.. although the balancing really limited mythic when trying to create new classes, it worked fairly well. The system was pretty much like this:

There were heavy tanks, light tanks, assassins, archers, heavy casters, debuffers with poisons usually, and classes with buffs with some DD, or high defense.

Heavy tanks > stealthers, light tanks and sometimes mages

Light tanks = stealthers: were kinda even in battle if crit shot or backstab was landed, if straight battle tnak wins

Stealthers > mages, buffers and any unsuspecting light tank, and the occasional gank of a heavy tank.

Mages > everyone pretty much, if they got the jump on you


But the overall progression was Tanks > stealthers > mages > tanks etc

It worked out really well.

Yes, because DAoC RvR (realm vs realm) was their main focus to begin with. This is why Warhammer is still considered a good PvP MMO, but lacks that PvE side.

XIV is the complete opposite, as was WoW when it started out. It was purely PvE oriented. Throwing in PvP half assed will only lead to more issues. If SE adds it in after a thoughtful process, okay then. But if they squeeze it in just to make release date, drop it.

[Vacht]

Yes, because DAoC RvR (realm vs realm) was their main focus to begin with. This is why Warhammer is still considered a good PvP MMO, but lacks that PvE side.

XIV is the complete opposite, as was WoW when it started out. It was purely PvE oriented. Throwing in PvP half assed will only lead to more issues. If SE adds it in after a thoughtful process, okay then. But if they squeeze it in just to make release date, drop it.

Yeah, youre totally right. SE is better at storyline, and creative gameplay anyways, right? It cant be forced. Its like expecting WoW to have storyline like FFXI... some things just dont fit.

[arus2001]

I think Ballista was nothing short of glorious. It lacked one major thing though; actual rewards.

Which is largely how optional PvP needs to remain, unfortunately. The moment anything good is added, those who despise PvP might find themselves forced to slog through an experience they don't enjoy just to get whatever. While this might not be much different than people who like HNMs or Dynamis (my own dislike lies with Salvage, or more specifically, some of its "features"), failure in the PvE arena is usually more a mistake or more as a result of the player/group instead of getting steamrolled by twinks who live for PvP playing flavors of the month.

The economic PvP of XI was enough for me, sometimes too much. How markets behaved didn't always make sense and too often there was little incentive to forsake greed for the benefit of others around you. And that cycle would just repeat itself, often unequally.

[bluefan]

Yeah, youre totally right. SE is better at storyline, and creative gameplay anyways, right? It cant be forced. Its like expecting WoW to have storyline like FFXI... some things just dont fit.

WoW could've had a good storyline, but they chose to opt instead of a massive amount of stand alone quests. And the quests that were a series were...bearable at best. None of them really seemed like an adventure, and most of them being a carbon copy of a previous one didn't help either. Nice to have variety, yes, but you know what they say...too much of something...

There were, however, a few good ones. The earliest one I still love to this day is the human Westfall area Defias storyline. That was awesome. And then I had to wait until the Tempest Keep area, followed by the Sunwell.

I honestly would like some kind of PvP in XIV myself, but I would much rather wait the wait and have a good system established. SEs good at thinking about long term effects, unlike Blizzard who throws things in left and right then "monitors" the situation as their employees so eloquently put it.

[vrumpt]

WoW could've had a good storyline, but they chose to opt instead of a massive amount of stand alone quests. And the quests that were a series were...bearable at best. None of them really seemed like an adventure, and most of them being a carbon copy of a previous didn't help either. Nice to have variety, yes, but you know what they say...too much of something...

There were, however, a few good ones. The earliest one I still love to this day is the human Westfall area Defias storyline. That was awesome. And then I had to wait until the Tempest Keep area, followed by the Sunwell.

I honestly would like some kind of PvP in XIV myself, but I would much rather wait the wait and have a good system established. SEs good at thinking about long term effects, unlike Blizzard who throws things in left and right then "monitors" the situation as their employees so eloquently put it.

you get some cookies for being awesome

[Xavier]

Never understood why they did not integrate Tetra Master in XI.

Never understood it either. I would have played the hell out of it during those long Aery camps if I could've pulled it up ingame. Would love to see it added to 14.

[Vacht]

WoW could've had a good storyline, but they chose to opt instead of a massive amount of stand alone quests. And the quests that were a series were...bearable at best. None of them really seemed like an adventure, and most of them being a carbon copy of a previous one didn't help either. Nice to have variety, yes, but you know what they say...too much of something...

There were, however, a few good ones. The earliest one I still love to this day is the human Westfall area Defias storyline. That was awesome. And then I had to wait until the Tempest Keep area, followed by the Sunwell.

I honestly would like some kind of PvP in XIV myself, but I would much rather wait the wait and have a good system established. SEs good at thinking about long term effects, unlike Blizzard who throws things in left and right then "monitors" the situation as their employees so eloquently put it.

I never played WoW unfortunately, but i didnt know they had some intense storyline here and there. I guess Square just does really good drama, and they give us cutscenes of epic proportions.

[vrumpt]

I never played WoW unfortunately, but i didnt know they had some intense storyline here and there. I guess Square just does really good drama, and they give us cutscenes of epic proportions.

There was hardly any kind of intense storyline in WoW. It was very light, it was there, but light. None of the questlines that were supposed to have story did a very good job of making us feel like a story of any kind was being told. The best job WoW has done in telling a story has to be the Wrathgate sequence, and even that was done poorly. Any other attempt at telling a story is ruined since people watch Blizzard like hawks and leak any kind of plot elements months before they go live. FFXI may have only given us hours worth of story with each update, but thats still worlds above what Blizzard has given its fanbase.

At this point i really hope FFXIV really really hurts WoW and takes its members, just so people will have some idea what good storytelling is instead of the false ideals Blizzard gives its customers.

[Ksandra]

I never played WoW unfortunately, but i didnt know they had some intense storyline here and there. I guess Square just does really good drama, and they give us cutscenes of epic proportions.

I will say that Wow's back story kinda rapes FFXI. (not that I want to turn this into a WoW vs. FFXI, just want to clarify).

WoW takes place after Warcraft III so had previous lore to build on. All the major NPCs from WoW are from previous Warcraft games (including the Lich King). So ya it does get interwoven pretty deeply.

With that said you are right about one thing, which is the cutscenes. Up until WoTLK you learn most of the back story either through random books throughtout the game or from having played the previous warcraft games (or can cheat like me and date someone who played the warcraft games).


However Blizzard seemed to find the advantages to cutscenes and had some pretty awesome ones in WoTLK. Especially since they added phasing in the game, which I will say is a nifty nifty toy. (For those that don't know, phasing is basically permanent changes to a zone as you go through the story. IE. there is a cutscene where at the end dragons set fire to a village. Before you get to the cs that zone is normal, afterwards anytime you go to the village it'll be on fire). It's definitely one of the things I think any new mmo should try to take advantage off. As people were talking about npcs moving, phasing helps the story move within the game itself vs. just the cutscene.



Back to the pvp part, I don't want to imply I want world pvp, as that wouldn't work I think in an FF world. But yes I would love something like battlegrounds, because they are definitely a more fun filler than staring at your mog or something.

[Vacht]

I will say that Wow's back story kinda rapes FFXI. (not that I want to turn this into a WoW vs. FFXI, just want to clarify).

WoW takes place after Warcraft III so had previous lore to build on. All the major NPCs from WoW are from previous Warcraft games (including the Lich King). So ya it does get interwoven pretty deeply.

With that said you are right about one thing, which is the cutscenes. Up until WoTLK you learn most of the back story either through random books throughtout the game or from having played the previous warcraft games (or can cheat like me and date someone who played the warcraft games).


However Blizzard seemed to find the advantages to cutscenes and had some pretty awesome ones in WoTLK. Especially since they added phasing in the game, which I will say is a nifty nifty toy. (For those that don't know, phasing is basically permanent changes to a zone as you go through the story. IE. there is a cutscene where at the end dragons set fire to a village. Before you get to the cs that zone is normal, afterwards anytime you go to the village it'll be on fire). It's definitely one of the things I think any new mmo should try to take advantage off. As people were talking about npcs moving, phasing helps the story move within the game itself vs. just the cutscene.



Back to the pvp part, I don't want to imply I want world pvp, as that wouldn't work I think in an FF world. But yes I would love something like battlegrounds, because they are definitely a more fun filler than staring at your mog or something.

WoW sounds like a pretty awesome game! they had that 'phasing' thing in asheron's call, and it was my favorite thing. When they introduced the olthoi queen, these monsters called 'olthoi' ant like creatures, would raid towns randomly. it was a completely seemless environment. And at one point there was a developer playing the arch nemsis of asheron, who was some holy dude the game was named after. But this dev would raid towns and at one point a town was destroyed and never ever brought back again. When that dude was raiding trowns they also had most of the seas blood red, which was really neat.


Environments that interact with the storyline are soooooo awesome. In AC, depending on how far the players were with killing certain enemies who effected the environment would have an affect on the environment. So players actually had an effect on the game. It was so cool!


Id rather have 'phasing' than PvP.

[bluefan]

I never played WoW unfortunately, but i didnt know they had some intense storyline here and there. I guess Square just does really good drama, and they give us cutscenes of epic proportions.

Ah, that's a shame. Every MMO player should at least give it a whirl. There's a reason why it's the highest grossing MMO (and video game on PC) in history.

And that's exactly why I'm so engrossed with XIV. Story. Unlike many MMOs before it and after WoW, it's not based on some IP (intellectual property). Completely new world, completely new characters and their stories. Only way to learn and experience it all, is to play

WoW, I already knew inside out what the general IP and lore was. It was great relating to things I've read in the books and in previous Warcraft games, but the real magic was learning about new things. Like the Defias and Tempest Keep questlines

Blizzard has tried getting better with their story telling (their machinima system), and having large quest lines in their WoTLK areas, but it's quite a bit late to the game.

Now, we can argue XIV will be going down this road with the guildleves we've seen. It could turn out as mundane as WoWs quest system, but I have faith in SE to at least deliver a better story telling system. MMOs need to feel like an adventure again and not a chore.

[vrumpt]

I will say that Wow's back story kinda rapes FFXI. (not that I want to turn this into a WoW vs. FFXI, just want to clarify).

WoW takes place after Warcraft III so had previous lore to build on. All the major NPCs from WoW are from previous Warcraft games (including the Lich King). So ya it does get interwoven pretty deeply.

With that said you are right about one thing, which is the cutscenes. Up until WoTLK you learn most of the back story either through random books throughtout the game or from having played the previous warcraft games (or can cheat like me and date someone who played the warcraft games).

I will admit that having the Warcraft III storyline behind WoW definitely helps it in the story department, Arthas is one of the greatest villains of all time in my book. Perhaps in Cataclysm they will utilize cutscenes a lot more, if not actual movies than in game scenes such as Drakuru's last quest in Drak'Tharon Keep.

Vana'diel has a large amount of backstory also if you take the time to look it up. Actually doing so adds a much larger meaning onto the RotZ and CoP storylines. At this point since Cataclysm will add brand new content to the Warcraft Universe, unlike previous expansions which had old games to fall back on, WoW can be considered the 4th game in the Warcraft series, versus FFXI which is standalone. Using this reasoning, FFXI > WoW on story.

[coldbrand]

Tetra Master and the even better TRIPPLE TRIAD BABY. If they implemented one I'm sure the framework from that would make it easy to implement the other, if I get in early enough in beta I'm going to suggest it, along with fucking Jump for lancers.

[vrumpt]

Tetra Master and the even better TRIPPLE TRIAD BABY. If they implemented one I'm sure the framework from that would make it easy to implement the other, if I get in early enough in beta I'm going to suggest it, along with fucking Jump for lancers.

OMG adding triple triad to FFXIV would be the best thing they could ever do. Cards could drop off mobs or be rewards or treasure. Challenges could be easily implemented. we NEED TRIPLE TRIAD.

[Vacht]

Ah, that's a shame. Every MMO player should at least give it a whirl. There's a reason why it's the highest grossing MMO (and video game on PC) in history.

And that's exactly why I'm so engrossed with XIV. Story. Unlike many MMOs before it and after WoW, it's not based on some IP (intellectual property). Completely new world, completely new characters and their stories. Only way to learn and experience it all, is to play

WoW, I already knew inside out what the general IP and lore was. It was great relating to things I've read in the books and in previous Warcraft games, but the real magic was learning about new things. Like the Defias and Tempest Keep questlines

Blizzard has tried getting better with their story telling (their machinima system), and having large quest lines in their WoTLK areas, but it's quite a bit late to the game.

Now, we can argue XIV will be going down this road with the guildleves we've seen. It could turn out as mundane as WoWs quest system, but I have faith in SE to at least deliver a better story telling system. MMOs need to feel like an adventure again and not a chore.

Amen! And i never played WoW because my buddies said its a rip off of dark age, and the graphics really threw me off. Kind of wishing i had atleast tried it.

OMG adding triple triad to FFXIV would be the best thing they could ever do. Cards could drop off mobs or be rewards or treasure. Challenges could be easily implemented. we NEED TRIPLE TRIAD.

FOR SRSLY.

[Ksandra]

At this point since Cataclysm will add brand new content to the Warcraft Universe, unlike previous expansions which had old games to fall back on,

I'm sorry to say that this statement shows you are assuming a lot of WoW's lore. Deathwing is the main protagonist who is the father of Onyxia, and I think originates from W3. Wargens have technically been in the game since release. (The town they live in have always existed and is even listed on the map it just has been barricaded.) And we now finally see what the fuck that whirlpool in the center of the map is about. I really don't think you know the extent that Warcraft's lore goes into.

Edit: and claiming that wow built it's story in 4 games makes it not as indepth as FFXI since they did it in one, is silly reasoning.

[Mytiwar]

Which is largely how optional PvP needs to remain, unfortunately. The moment anything good is added, those who despise PvP might find themselves forced to slog through an experience they don't enjoy just to get whatever. While this might not be much different than people who like HNMs or Dynamis (my own dislike lies with Salvage, or more specifically, some of its "features"), failure in the PvE arena is usually more a mistake or more as a result of the player/group instead of getting steamrolled by twinks who live for PvP playing flavors of the month.

The economic PvP of XI was enough for me, sometimes too much. How markets behaved didn't always make sense and too often there was little incentive to forsake greed for the benefit of others around you. And that cycle would just repeat itself, often unequally.

I get your point. What would still be doable, imo, for an event like ballista, is to give points to participants (more to winners obv., preferably based more on a team effort than individual players too to shut up the whiners that say x job is better than theirs) that can then be turned in for random money items, nq gears that you can already get like a.ingots or igquira weskits or w/e.
Nothing game breaking that 'forces' people into doing it, but more like a decent incentive so that you don't feel like by doing that particular event you are completely losing some time that you coulda spent camping x nm or doing x bcnm or whatever.

Very wishful and all.

[Agito]

I've spent over 6 months of playing tetra master on playonline, it was just pure awesomeness. It would be truely amazing to incorporate that into FFXIV and be able to duel with other players on the spot, maybe even make a special area solely for the sake of tetra master with tournaments and things with multitudes of rewards and ways to achieve those rewards. Over time tetra master on playonline saw less and less people and it ended up dieing but if it's in the actual world of Hydaelyn then it would never die.

[Ksandra]

Implementing tetra master into FFXIV is definitely duoable, and I actually hope so too.

They actually have a card game in EQ2, which was a lot of fun. You can even buy real card game packs at best buy, then put a code into the game so the cards are loaded onto your character.

You could also get rare cards as drops off of random mobs too which was always fun to see.