Obama signs one-year extension of Patriot Act

[quannum]

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

of course they just do it w/o a warrant to get around that, but it still breaks the spirit of the law

[quannum]

thats the 4th amendment btw

[Leif]

of course they just do it w/o a warrant to get around that, but it still breaks the spirit of the law

What is the "spirit of the law"? That definition is completely arbitrary.

It's either legal or illegal.

[Omnipotent]

thats the 4th amendment btw

I wasn't aware after taking 2 years of Criminal Justice and passing Elementary School. Thanks.

[willriker]

I am really interested in why you still think you are losing rights because of this. It's not like they are interceding on you mid conversation with your best friend, hell they aren't even listening in unless you say a "threat word" or whatever they call it. Nothing in your life changes because of this, please tell me how this affects your day to day activities?

I have family/friends over seas. When they would call me, i did not like the idea of someone eavesdropping on my personal conversations. The Government has no right to invade my privacy without probable cause. The mear act of them calling me up to talk, from overseas, would allow the government to eavesdrop on our conversations. Infact, before the Patriot act, the government was prohibited from doing so, without a court order. To get a court order requires them to display that a wire tap is warranted. They cant just decide to listen in on conversations, nor should they.

And geesh, god forbid if the Gov't was listening in on our conversations while we were talking politics. Whats next, would i get in trouble for expressing outrage at any particular policy/decision made by our government? What if a relative, or friend, of mine decided to make a distasteful remark about terrorism on US soil, even if it was in a harmless jest?

Its ok if you are unwilling to name a single civil liberty that you would be comfortable losing to be 'safer'. I am not willing to name a single one either.

BTW, do you live in NYC?

[quannum]

What is the "spirit of the law"? That definition is completely arbitrary.

It's either legal or illegal.

cool story, bro

[Omnipotent]

I have family/friends over seas. When they would call me, i did not like the idea of someone eavesdropping on my personal conversations. The Government has no right to invade my privacy without probable cause. The mear act of them calling me up to talk, from overseas, would allow the government to eavesdrop on our conversations. Infact, before the Patriot act, the government was prohibited from doing so, without a court order. To get a court order requires them to display that a wire tap is warranted. They cant just decide to listen in on conversations, nor should they.

And geesh, god forbid if the Gov't was listening in on our conversations while we were talking politics. Whats next, would i get in trouble for expressing outrage at any particular policy/decision made by our government? What if a relative, or friend, of mine decided to make a distasteful remark about terrorism on US soil, even if it was in a harmless jest?

Its ok if you are unwilling to name a single civil liberty that you would be comfortable losing to be 'safer'. I am not willing to name a single one either.

BTW, do you live in NYC?

No I don't live in NYC, I don't see what that has to do with anything. I'm not going to keep throwing things at you, because it's clear no one is going to change their mind. What it comes down to is based solely off opinion. Some hate it, some don't mind it. Fact of the matter is it's done, if you can't beat em.... join em.

[Qalbert]

well you can't seem to beat the people arguing against the violation of the 4th amendment, so...

[Omnipotent]

well you can't seem to beat the people arguing against the violation of the4th amendment, so...

Civil liberties is there to prevent the abuse of power, I don't see abuse. I see safely monitoring the protection of U.S citizens, without interfering with their lives.

[willriker]

No I don't live in NYC, I don't see what that has to do with anything. I'm not going to keep throwing things at you, because it's clear no one is going to change their mind. What it comes down to is based solely off opinion. Some hate it, some don't mind it. Fact of the matter is it's done, if you can't beat em.... join em.

Or protest, either on the streets or by your vote. I protested Bush with my vote, because of crap like this Patriot Act.

Now, if you are not in some place like NYC... then you are even less at risk of a terrorist attack. Yet you seem even more willing to give away your rights in the name of safety. Its risky to do this, i know, but i am willing to say that the only 'injury' you suffered from 911 was that you payed a bit more tax or lost some money in the stock market. So, by extension, you are willing to give away your civil liberties to protect a few coins in your pocket.

Its just not a good trade to me.

I might not agree with everything i see, or hear, but its that persons right to express it. I would not give up your right, or mine, for 'safety' or to protect a few coins in my pocket.

[Gregorio]

Civil liberties is there to prevent the abuse of power, I don't see abuse. I see safely monitoring the protection of U.S citizens, without interfering with their lives.

Civil liberties aren't there to prevent the abuse of power...they're our natural born rights. The things wars were fought over to protect.

And the slippery slope argument is often a bad one...but in situations like this where trials and court rulings will set precedence for future trials for years to come...yeah I'd say it works out. Any infringement is step towards more infringement.

[Omnipotent]

Or protest, either on the streets or by your vote. I protested Bush with my vote, because of crap like this Patriot Act.

Now, if you are not in some place like NYC... then you are even less at risk of a terrorist attack. Yet you seem even more willing to give away your rights in the name of safety. Its risky to do this, i know, but i am willing to say that the only 'injury' you suffered from 911 was that you payed a bit more tax or lost some money in the stock market. So, by extension, you are willing to give away your civil liberties to protect a few coins in your pocket.

Its just not a good trade to me.

I might not agree with everything i see, or hear, but its that persons right to express it. I would not give up your right, or mine, for 'safety' or to protect a few coins in my pocket.

I lost my uncle, but good guess. You saw right through me.

[Abandon]

It has to be said.

8/10 .. you should've said "liberal liberal liberal liberal lib" to properly imitate Leif.

Shut the fuck up, Olo.

[willriker]

Civil liberties aren't there to prevent the abuse of power...they're our natural born rights. The things wars were fought over to protect.

And the slippery slope argument is often a bad one...but in situations like this where trials and court rulings will set precedence for future trials for years to come...yeah I'd say it works out. Any infringement is step towards more infringement.

Seriously, my grandfather fought in WWII to prevent another nation from coming after us. Then imposing what they deemed to be a correct way of living. Telling us how to live our lives. He, and so many others, fought to protect that. Yet here we are, just giving those very rights away. And, we are doing so for no other reason than we were scared.

[Omnipotent]

Seriously, my grandfather fought in WWII to prevent another nation from coming after us. Then imposing what they deemed to be a correct way of living. Telling us how to live our lives. He, and so many others, fought to protect that. Yet here we are, just giving those very rights away. And, we are doing so for no other reason than we were scared.

We have cause to be scared. The U.S is infamous for putting a foot into everyone Else's shit.

[willriker]

I lost my uncle, but good guess. You saw right through me.

I am sorry to hear that, i really am. I can now understand why you feel that giving away some of your rights as being a good thing to make yourself safer from attack. Understanding that was what i was looking for from the very begining. I might completely, and whole heartedly, dissagree with your ultimate conclusion, but i can understand it.

[Omnipotent]

I am sorry to hear that, i really am. I can now understand why you feel that giving away some of your rights as being a good thing to make yourself safer from attack. Understanding that was what i was looking for from the very begining. I might completely, and whole heartedly, dissagree with your ultimate conclusion, but i can understand it.

I'd rather be safe than sorry, I do respect your opinion, and at one point in my life was on your side, but things change unfortunately.

[Priran]

the subtext of omnipotent's posts is the best part of this thread

[Qalbert]

tags are also a bit amusing

[Acturus]

tags are also a bit amusing

I can't read thread tags without thinking of this guy:

http://www.filmdope.com/Gallery/ActorsR/14435-16142.gif